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re: Is keto best?

Posted on 6/5/18 at 1:47 pm to
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39849 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 1:47 pm to
quote:


going all out keto while doing legit strength and conditioning is not going to give you optimal performance
Sorry, this is just not true.

quote:


My avg training week consist of power lifting, Olympic lifting, tons of accessory work, multiple 3-5 mile runs, sprints, body weight work outs and some crossfit work outs.

If anything if i decide to give keto a shot i will tailor my training for a couple weeks to lower the intensity.


If you haven't even tried it yet, why are you declaring such as if you know?
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37536 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

If you haven't even tried it yet, why are you declaring such as if you know?


I haven't tried a lot of shite that I know what the result would be were i to try it.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126745 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

Sorry, this is just not true.


yes it def is true

quote:

If you haven't even tried it yet, why are you declaring such as if you know?


bc keto isn't the optimal diet for it
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39849 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

I haven't tried a lot of shite that I know what the result would be were i to try it.
Ignorant. Noted.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39849 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

yes it def is true
Sorry, it just isn't.

quote:

bc keto isn't the optimal diet for it
Depends on what "it" is. It's highly likely that keto is as good as anything else you are considering doing. Certainly your body is designed for keto.
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37536 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

Ignorant. Noted.


I actually agree with a Keto type diet in principal. I tend to stay away from carbs, although I eat more protein than fat for multiple reasons, convenience and what I like being a couple. However, I also realize Keto isn't a magic diet. It's not an optimal diet as a particular lifting routine isn't optimal for every person. You seem to be pretty knowledgeable, but your Keto or bust attitude and complete disregard for logical and legitimate questions and/or skepticism completely disqualifies you from rational discussion.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126745 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 3:44 pm to
It’s not optional for the type of training I do currently

Now if I want to drop a few pounds and tone down the intensity than yes keto might be great for me
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173618 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 6:16 pm to
So this is a sort of silly question

Why is performance so important during training? Shouldn't you only really be looking for the edge during the "test" or whatever it is that qualifies you?

Or is the idea that better performance while you're training accelerates your training progress?
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126745 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 6:26 pm to
quote:

So this is a sort of silly question

Why is performance so important during training? Shouldn't you only really be looking for the edge during the "test" or whatever it is that qualifies you?

Or is the idea that better performance while you're training accelerates your training progress?



training to just past the test, is training for failure.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173618 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 6:37 pm to
Perhaps I wasn't as clear

If you trained with nutrition that would give you sub optimal performance enough to where you could meet the requirements, wouldn't you be able to easier meet the requirements if you switched gears with your nutrition right before the test?

What I mean is using it as a handicap during training similar to one of those running masks that restricts air flow.

Probably didn't put into words what I was thinking very well with the first question
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37536 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 6:49 pm to
So you'd be in favor of a baseball player to take batting practice without his contacts in because when he hit in the real game he'd be able to see better? That's an interesting theory. Wearing a mask to mimic tougher conditions and not properly fueling your body to perform at optimum levels aren't nearly the same thing. Increased risk of injury, slower recovery, etc.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173618 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 6:52 pm to
Optimizing for recovery makes sense for sure.

But couldn't optimizing for performance increase chances of injury from over training?

I'm not trying to argue. Genuinely curious.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126745 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:20 pm to
today was the first day i tracked what i eat for the first time in over a year on mfp

my split was

33% carbs 144g
34% fats 63g
33 % protein 139g
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38022 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:36 pm to
No, you want to perform as best as possible to drive progress. You don't show up on test day full of carbs and suddenly add a ton of weight to your lifts, doesn't work like that.

Keto is a fine diet especially for overall health but there are dozens of studies that show so long as protein is high, the rest of the make up of the energy balance doesn't matter in the long run or it matters so little it isn't worth stressing over. The forementioned is speaking of weight loss.

For muscle gain and performance especially in heavy wieght training, carbs are needed to activate mtor and to keep cortisol at Bay.

Keto is best and really only good for when one is trying to lose body fat. Fat is the easiest macro to store as body fat so when in a surplus you want fat relatively low.

I like keto and when not in a performance meso cycle, I tend to eat that away but it's not magic nor is it the end all be all, nor is it optimal for gaining muscle, nor does offer any real relative advantage, other than hunger blunting effects, over a balanced iso caloric diet. The one thing it does do is it usually forces people to eat better quality food and that is one of it's few advantages.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173618 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:47 pm to
That makes sense to me

I'm trying a relatively hybrid approach

Relatively low carb but not low enough to be keto

I try to include a decent portion of healthy fats in my diet but I'm not over here making keto fat bombs or anything

Protein probably isn't high enough for optimal muscle gain at the moment because I ditched the whey protein shakes (was giving me ridiculous gas) Trying to get enough protein through meat and almond butter
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35317 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

bc keto isn't the optimal diet for it


You conception of "keto diet" probably isn't. But the great thing about HFLC is it is a highly adaptable way of eating. I stay fat-adapted, never have keto flu, and I vary my macros pretty broadly (by feel, not measurements or counts) depending on my goals at the time.

If you follow the real fitness guys and ketogains Reddit, you'll see some ways in which it's done.

Ahhhh, the ole health/fitness board downvoters with no legit rebuttal.
This post was edited on 6/5/18 at 7:55 pm
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35317 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:53 pm to
quote:

Relatively low carb but not low enough to be keto 



I did this for ahwile, and then I started researching beta-hydroxybutyrate's amazing anti-inflammatory and protective properties and went all in. With IF and aerobic exercise, it's a breeze to keep blood ketones well over .5 mmol/l
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35317 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

nor does offer any real relative advantage, other than hunger blunting effects, over a balanced iso caloric diet.


There's a lot of evidence to the contrary.

ETA just a quick e.g.:
LINK

quote:

Neuro-inflammation has been shown to play a critical role in the development of depression. Beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) is a ketone body and has recently been reported to exert anti-inflammatory effects via inhibition of NLRP3 inflammasome. 




This post was edited on 6/5/18 at 7:58 pm
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173618 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:57 pm to
I might go all in eventually but I'm not going to change anything up right now because what I'm doing is working

Down 11 lbs since May 5th and 16 overall since I started at the end of March. I'm now steadily losing at about 2.5 lbs a week so I think I might have found the right mix for me just recently.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38022 posts
Posted on 6/5/18 at 7:57 pm to
Still not optimal for lean muscle gain strictly because of stimulating mtor and the ability to store fat as body fat so much easier than other macros.

I honestly think a high protein carb cycling approach is best for lean gains.
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