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Started By
Message
re: It’s Official: LIV and Phil nuked professional golf
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:12 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:12 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
I know Rory is a divisive figure and I can find him insufferable at times, but he hit the nail on the head when he talked about this and criticized it last week. LIV created a false economy around golf and the PGA did what it needed to do to survive. It is now dead, and there’s no need to reinvent the wheel to try to keep competing with something that doesn’t exist anymore
exactly.
LIV is dead, the PGA Tour doesn't need to copy anything from their model to compete.
LIV is finished.
I dont understand this move at all.
1
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:26 am to CBandits82
I mean 120 guys is way more than 54 and 1/4 get relegated every year with 30 new players coming in.
I understand some of the response but this is far from what LIV was as far as a closed shop and small fields. 120 is the normal size of a pga tour event.
I understand some of the response but this is far from what LIV was as far as a closed shop and small fields. 120 is the normal size of a pga tour event.
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:35 am to tigerfan88
quote:
Spieth, Fowler, Brooks, Rose, Day Scott. All guys who have had seasons in the past 5-8 years where they would have dropped down into the lower tier. Are you saying there wouldn’t be huge interest in seeing those guys try to make it back up?
Except the "shitty" events will typically have most of those guys in the field.
The VTO in San Antonio just a couple years ago had Spieth, Fowler, Rose, Cam Young, Aberg, Fitzpatrick, Bhatia, Matsuyama, Burns, SW Kim, and a slew of other major champions.
Under the new system that tournament will get one, maybe 2 of those types of guys some years and some years they'd get 0.
quote:
A bunch of Jackson Koivun’s and Mason Howell’s battling it out to make the upper tier?
I doubt more than 2% of pro golf fans know or care about who the best amateur is.
This post was edited on 6/23/26 at 11:39 am
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:36 am to tigerfan88
quote:
In golf the players are the equivalent of a “team” in other sports. That’s the whole thing LIV never grasped about the team model.
Scottie is the Lakers. Rory is the Patriots. Spieth going down and trying to battle is way back up is the same concept as West Ham fans watching the championship religiously to see if they can get back to the EPL.
This is just not true lol. You cannot compare individual golfers and their fan draw to team sports. They just are not in anyway comparable.
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:46 am to JohnnyKilroy
People root for individual players in golf, there is no “team.” LIV tried that and it failed miserably because all people care about is the individual golfer. Again it is eon’s less intense actual team sports, but it’s a measure of amount. Triple A and G League are just completely inapposite comparisons. In your post above you referenced individual players at the Valero as a measure of its worth. If enough individual players people care about are playing on the lower tier it will get eyeballs. Now will they get enough? Idk.
Also this entire debate is ignoring that we’re getting double the amount of events with all of the best players playing. The Valero equivalent may very well be a Champions tier event and get the 120 best players in the world.
Start of February to end of August is 30-31 weeks. Full slate of “Champions Events,” including majors and playoffs, is going to be 23-24. So you’re talking 8 events that are currently “normal” tour stops that will be downgraded (including ones that already had incredibly weak fields like Mexico or Cognizant or Zurich). And then 7 events are getting elevated from “normal” events to champions level events. So essentially for every tournament that is going to suffer somewhat of a downgrade, another tournament is getting an equal increase in stature.
Also this entire debate is ignoring that we’re getting double the amount of events with all of the best players playing. The Valero equivalent may very well be a Champions tier event and get the 120 best players in the world.
Start of February to end of August is 30-31 weeks. Full slate of “Champions Events,” including majors and playoffs, is going to be 23-24. So you’re talking 8 events that are currently “normal” tour stops that will be downgraded (including ones that already had incredibly weak fields like Mexico or Cognizant or Zurich). And then 7 events are getting elevated from “normal” events to champions level events. So essentially for every tournament that is going to suffer somewhat of a downgrade, another tournament is getting an equal increase in stature.
Posted on 6/23/26 at 11:48 am to tigerfan88
quote:Having "big names" drop down isn't going to generate the same interest as a current top player. I grew up in Memphis. Back when I was a kid, the St Judge was a lower tier event but we typically got 5-10 good players to play the event. That got people to go out and watch. I don't think having a good player out of his prime generates the same interest as a plyer still in top form playing in a lower level event.
You’re throwing a huge fit because guys on the top tier can’t go play the Byron Nelson or Zurich because that will kill those events (in your mind). The logic being that even though those events have largely no relevancy and very few big names, if they can get even a few that is enough to prop the tournament up.
Why does the same logic not apply to one of those lower tier tournaments? Every year around 25-30 guys will drop down. Odds are good that a few of those will be big names that people are invested in. You don’t need people to rabidly watch every minute of every tourney. You need enough names that people in the area say “oh yeah I’ll go watch Spieth and Fowler” or Sunday afternoon can say “oh shite Spieth is in contention and if he wins he’s back on the main tour next year.”
I just don't see why this move was necessary and, long term, does it actually help grow the PGA Tour or does it ultimately hurt the Tour if/when these lower tiered tournaments cannot be sustained. Now that PE is in play, they're not going to keep putting on those events if it's a drain on the bottom line.
quote:
Not to mention it’s an obvious dumping spot for the LIV guys. Rahm/Niemann/Hatton there trying to redeem themselves?
That would be short-term . Long-term, watching LIV guys earn back status isn't going to be a thing. When Rahm, Neimann, and Hatton type guys earn back status on the big stage, what then?
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:19 pm to generalgator87
quote:I have a very hard time believing that until I see it happen or get actually put on paper
It does look like the Tour Championship will be held at venues like Seminole and Cypress Point which would be awesome
CP, maaaaaybe. Seminole and Pine valley sounded like Rolapp saying things for fan fiction
This post was edited on 6/23/26 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:26 pm to lsupride87
quote:
CP, maaaaaybe. Seminole and Pine valley sounded like Rolapp saying things for fan fiction
I think it would make the most sense to go to places on the west coast that can't normally handle large events. Make it like "The Match" in that it is built mainly for TV, but have the stakes be much higher. It would be pretty cool to watch matches in primetime in August at some of these venues. Due to the potential smaller nature of the events, you could even do it during the week.
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:27 pm to lsupride87
I am with you. The initial reporting was that it was more set it stone. The more that comes out, it does seem like a wish list item more than anything solid. Which makes sense. Why would those clubs want to be involved?
My guess is that they end up at Dream Golf resorts where they (1) don't have the infrastructure to handle normal tour events and (2) can use the PGA playoffs as marketing.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. My guess is that they end up at Dream Golf resorts where they (1) don't have the infrastructure to handle normal tour events and (2) can use the PGA playoffs as marketing.
This post was edited on 6/23/26 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:28 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
I think it would make the most sense to go to places on the west coast that can't normally handle large events. Make it like "The Match" in that it is built mainly for TV, but have the stakes be much higher. It would be pretty cool to watch matches in primetime in August at some of these venues. Due to the potential smaller nature of the events, you could even do it during the week.
All of this sounds awful to me TBH. I don't mind them having the Tour Championship on the west coast, but I don't need to watch a made for TV golf event, during the middle of the week, with a smaller crowd, and in primetime.
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:32 pm to lsufball19
quote:
All of this sounds awful to me TBH. I don't mind them having the Tour Championship on the west coast, but I don't need to watch a made for TV golf event, during the middle of the week, with a smaller crowd, and in primetime.
I'm not suggesting that it be made for TV like the match with it being a hit and giggle. My intention was that it be some sort of match play tournament that is made more interesting by going to cool venues. The main reason we get these milquetoast venues on the PGA Tour is that only a few courses can handle the infrastructure. So, with a smaller group of players, take advantage of that by going to special places. Make up the lost revenue from the venue by having more eyeballs on TV.
I'd much rather that than watch the current version of the tour championship where players are miserable in the Atlanta heat competing for the cup where the previous 8 months mean absolutely nothing as long as you are in the top 30.
This post was edited on 6/23/26 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:40 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
I'm not suggesting that it be made for TV like the match with it being a hit and giggle. My intention was that it be some sort of match play tournament that is made more interesting by going to cool venues. The main reason we get these milquetoast venues on the PGA Tour is that only a few courses can handle the infrastructure. So, with a smaller group of players, take advantage of that by going to special places. Make up the lost revenue from the venue by having more eyeballs on TV.
There are plenty of venues that have hosted large events before and that are also interesting that you don't need to go off the beaten path.
quote:
I'd much rather that than watch the current version of the tour championship where players are miserable in the Atlanta heat competing for the cup where the previous 8 months mean absolutely nothing as long as you are in the top 30.
You can accomplish moving away from the Atlanta summer heat and still go to a classic historic venue.
There are so many courses on the west coast and in colder states that have hosted majors and or large PGA events that would be perfectly fine to host the Tour Championship and would be more interesting layouts and courses than East Lake if that's the angle you're going for here
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:46 pm to DestrehanTiger
First off, Pine Valley is not a viable tournament site. It does not have the geography to handle the gallery. It's 1000 times worse than Merion on that front, and Merion can barely hold an event.
Second, this whole "Challenge Tour" is nonsense. It will never happen. First, most of the current events intended for that tour will be looking for new sponsors, since the Tour is breaching their contracts to do what they are doing. Zurich sponsors the Zurich because it is on CBS. If its not on CBS an instead buried on some streamer, Zurich has no reason to sponsor. This will happen to most events, which means 15-20 tournaments will be scrambling to find sponsors. That's too many.
Plus, who will play these events? The 60 guys who are losing their cards will just go to DP, where they can get full OWGR points, instead of playing on a tour with only a fraction of those points available. Playing well on the DP will get you into the Open; no such thing will be available on the Challenge Tour.
The bottom line is the Korn Ferry works just fine as the minor league tour, and the DP will be more than happy to have the PGA Tour's leftovers. There is no reason for the Challenge Tour to exist and they have to save money somewhere since they are broke, so by 2028 they will find an excuse to cancel it.
Second, this whole "Challenge Tour" is nonsense. It will never happen. First, most of the current events intended for that tour will be looking for new sponsors, since the Tour is breaching their contracts to do what they are doing. Zurich sponsors the Zurich because it is on CBS. If its not on CBS an instead buried on some streamer, Zurich has no reason to sponsor. This will happen to most events, which means 15-20 tournaments will be scrambling to find sponsors. That's too many.
Plus, who will play these events? The 60 guys who are losing their cards will just go to DP, where they can get full OWGR points, instead of playing on a tour with only a fraction of those points available. Playing well on the DP will get you into the Open; no such thing will be available on the Challenge Tour.
The bottom line is the Korn Ferry works just fine as the minor league tour, and the DP will be more than happy to have the PGA Tour's leftovers. There is no reason for the Challenge Tour to exist and they have to save money somewhere since they are broke, so by 2028 they will find an excuse to cancel it.
Posted on 6/23/26 at 12:47 pm to lsufball19
quote:
There are plenty of venues that have hosted large events before and that are also interesting that you don't need to go off the beaten path.
They also have to agree to do it. If you replicate the tour championship with full build-out, many of these clubs will say no thanks. However, if you keep the crowds smaller, you may get more clubs interested.
Also, I am not sure what you mean by "off the beaten path". My main basis for this argument is the Walker Cup. They just played at Cypress Point. They will be going to Bandon, Oakmont, NGLA, Pine Valley, Cypress Point again, and Seminole. How great would it be to watch pros play at venues like this (I know Oakmont is a US Open Venue). Even if these courses couldn't handle PGA players in a 72 hole stroke play, it wouldn't matter for matchplay.
I wouldn't say these events should just be spectators wondering all over the course like at the Walker Cup, but somewhere between that and a PGA Tour buildout would make sense.
I'm saying all this without any clue as to how willing these clubs are.
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