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re: 2021 NBA Free Agency
Posted on 8/27/21 at 11:38 am to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 8/27/21 at 11:38 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:And the Bulls got much more for Markkanen than we got for Ball, a guy they desperately wanted.
So let me get this straight, you can send a RFA and get back a first? You can go out and get a better RFA than you sent out, and you get to unload unwanted contracts and not give up a first?
But you knumbskulls think we had to give up a 1st to sign Graham, knowing full well that Charlotte was never going to match any offer sheet he got.
Our GM got played left and right this offseason.
1
Posted on 8/27/21 at 11:48 am to TechTiger
Well now we see why we didnt just do a Hart for Markannen swap. Chicago obviously wanted Hart and 1st round pick (even if it had protections that make it likely to convert to 2nd round picks), which Griff may have done.
The deal breaker for Griff and most of the NBA was Lauri's salary number demands. $17 mil per year??? Wow. Not worth it. If we wouldnt do $20 mil for Lonzo, then Griff was never doing even $15 mil per for Mark. Too injury prone and would be cost ineffective for a backup 4/5.
Thats starter money. Right now, Lauri cant be counted on to start, from an injury and production consistency standpoint. The risk for that contract to be a negative asset is far too possible for the Pels to take, especially in the midst of getting Zion to sign his inevitable supermax deal.
Well now I feel much better on missing out on Lauri. Hart's contract looks even better than it already does when considering the alternative and giving up a lottery protected, 1st round pick. Hard Pass.
Side note: Chicago did rather well to get Derrick Jones Jr. as well. He's Josh Hart lite with way more athletic ability and jumps out the gym (Dunk champion). Still has room to grow and is a solid backup 3. Portland got in on the deal and got Nance Jr. for a late 1st/2nd round pick. Not a needle mover for Dame, but not a bad deal. Actually helps out Portland and Nance may do really well having more space to operate in the paint bc of better spacing than he ever had in Cleveland or Brooklyn. Nance may help Portland climb 1 seed spot from where they would have been. Nance averages 10 and 9. Pick and pop with Dame and CJ will help increase his scoring average. Now they replaced some of Melo's production and got more defense which is what Portland has always needed to take another step. Makes me slightly wonder again if we passed Portland. Without Melo, yeah, but replacing him with Nance, I still say we are better but Nance is a good defender to try to limit Zion's play.
The deal breaker for Griff and most of the NBA was Lauri's salary number demands. $17 mil per year??? Wow. Not worth it. If we wouldnt do $20 mil for Lonzo, then Griff was never doing even $15 mil per for Mark. Too injury prone and would be cost ineffective for a backup 4/5.
Thats starter money. Right now, Lauri cant be counted on to start, from an injury and production consistency standpoint. The risk for that contract to be a negative asset is far too possible for the Pels to take, especially in the midst of getting Zion to sign his inevitable supermax deal.
Well now I feel much better on missing out on Lauri. Hart's contract looks even better than it already does when considering the alternative and giving up a lottery protected, 1st round pick. Hard Pass.
Side note: Chicago did rather well to get Derrick Jones Jr. as well. He's Josh Hart lite with way more athletic ability and jumps out the gym (Dunk champion). Still has room to grow and is a solid backup 3. Portland got in on the deal and got Nance Jr. for a late 1st/2nd round pick. Not a needle mover for Dame, but not a bad deal. Actually helps out Portland and Nance may do really well having more space to operate in the paint bc of better spacing than he ever had in Cleveland or Brooklyn. Nance may help Portland climb 1 seed spot from where they would have been. Nance averages 10 and 9. Pick and pop with Dame and CJ will help increase his scoring average. Now they replaced some of Melo's production and got more defense which is what Portland has always needed to take another step. Makes me slightly wonder again if we passed Portland. Without Melo, yeah, but replacing him with Nance, I still say we are better but Nance is a good defender to try to limit Zion's play.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 12:55 pm to TeddyPadillac
Griff panicked. Imagine this offseason with no Graham. Griffin did, and he paid the piper to avoid that.
It’s ridiculous when you compare the Zo sign and trade, Derozan sign and trade, Graham sign and trade, and the Lauri M sign and trades.
Griff is simply not good at his job.
Whether we win 48 games this year or not, it still was not proper asset management to do almost anything we did in the last 2 years.
Zion, Ingram and what used to be a million picks gave us a very healthy margin for error. The fact that the margin has largely disappeared and we still aren’t a clear cut top 6 team in the West is kind of embarrassing.
It’s ridiculous when you compare the Zo sign and trade, Derozan sign and trade, Graham sign and trade, and the Lauri M sign and trades.
Griff is simply not good at his job.
Whether we win 48 games this year or not, it still was not proper asset management to do almost anything we did in the last 2 years.
Zion, Ingram and what used to be a million picks gave us a very healthy margin for error. The fact that the margin has largely disappeared and we still aren’t a clear cut top 6 team in the West is kind of embarrassing.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 1:10 pm to NOSHAU
quote:Right, and for as much as people say we weren't going to match on Zo, Chicago was going to match THAT price on Lauri. Also, for as much as we weren't going to match on Zo, Chicago was equally as intent on getting Zo. No one would ever really know, but I'd find it hard to believe they would have let Zo go over a requirement to get a 1st back.
And the Bulls got much more for Markkanen than we got for Ball, a guy they desperately wanted.
There is no longer any rational excuse IMO that we gave up a 1st for Graham, Chicago didn't give up a 1st for Zo, and got a 1st for Lauri. I just don't see it, we botched it.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 1:48 pm to 3PieceSpicy
quote:Exactly. He is basically blowing much of the assets we accumulated in the AD and Jrue trade when we all thought he would use it for a 3rd star.
Griff is simply not good at his job.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 2:24 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
He is basically blowing much of the assets we accumulated in the AD and Jrue trade
Is he though? I get why people feel that way, but
- Lakers picks/swaps still have all but the least valuable 2022 pick
-#4 Lakers pick: Jury is still out and NAW/Jaxson should give us the verdict by the end of the season.
- Bucks picks, blew the 2021 pick on Steven Adams, still have the rest.
- Still have Ingram/Hart
- Lonzo is a loss of value, but most of us wanted to trade him during the AD trade precisely because we thought his value was higher then (allegedly a top 10 1st from Phoenix) than it would be now.
So of all of the assets Lonzo was wasted, a few 1sts in the 20s were wasted, and the jury is out on #4. Everything else is more or less intact and I'd argue that Ingram was better than expected as many of us valued the bundle of picks more than the players at first.
I'm not defending Griff here, he has for sure been wasteful and dumb with several moves. I'm just saying when you tally it all up, the losses aren't as bad as they feel.
Posted on 8/27/21 at 2:38 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm not defending Griff here, he has for sure been wasteful and dumb with several moves. I'm just saying when you tally it all up, the losses aren't as bad as they feel.
they really aren't, but as a small market team, you can't afford to be wasteful like he's been. That's why it's irritating. The Graham first was just unnecessary. The Grizz actually didn't have to give up assets to trade Bledsoe, like we did, but got back three young players, two of which are actually decent. The Grizz are laughing at how stupid Griff is.
I'm very happy with Trey Murphy. I'm happy with Graham and Val, but what it cost us to get those two and get rid of Adams/Bledsoe, on top of getting next to nothing in return for Lonzo just makes us (i mean Griff) look really stupid this offseason.
Posted on 8/27/21 at 2:40 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Ball and 3 1sts out with only Graham to show for it. #4 pick, as you said, jury is still out on. That is a lot of assets for very little to show for it thus far. If someone told you that we would trade Ball and 4 1sts, one being #4 overall, wouldn't you think you would have more to show for it than Graham, NAW and Hayes? Edit: I guess we should add JV to the assets we received in return.
I'm not defending Griff here, he has for sure been wasteful and dumb with several moves. I'm just saying when you tally it all up, the losses aren't as bad as they feel.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:23 pm to TeddyPadillac
So Chicago played hard ball with us and we caved and unloaded Ball for nothing, played hardball with Lauri who most of you said was garbage and got a first back? Something is not right here…..
Two years really three of very poor asset management by Griff…..
It’s been a disaster even with his being gifted AD and Jrue….
Two years really three of very poor asset management by Griff…..
It’s been a disaster even with his being gifted AD and Jrue….
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:37 pm to TigerinATL
I mean if you think giving up a total of three first round picks for Steven Adams and Devontae Graham isn’t wasting assets then sure. Not to mention the firsts he could have gained by bypassing other trades.
He could have picked up two firsts by taking on Horford instead of Adams.
Then maybe go for SGA with those 5 first round picks we just blew or didn’t have b/c of trades he didn’t make. I think the thunder would have been very interested in a package with 5-6 frp with a few other pieces. And we’d still have exactly what we have right now.
Been saying all these stupid losses Griff keeps taking adds up.
He could have picked up two firsts by taking on Horford instead of Adams.
Then maybe go for SGA with those 5 first round picks we just blew or didn’t have b/c of trades he didn’t make. I think the thunder would have been very interested in a package with 5-6 frp with a few other pieces. And we’d still have exactly what we have right now.
Been saying all these stupid losses Griff keeps taking adds up.
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:38 pm to cgrand
quote:
Cleveland is acquiring Chicago restricted free agent F Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M deal in a sign-and-trade, sources tell ESPN.
Holy cow! Incredibly bad deal for Cleveland, unless Lauri has several new levels to unlock (and he somehow stays healthy).
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:39 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Edit: I guess we should add JV to the assets we received in return.
No we shouldn’t, that was for moving down from 10 to 17. But everything else you said is 100%
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:44 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
on top of getting next to nothing in return for Lonzo just makes us (i mean Griff) look really stupid this offseason.
He looks the same as last offseason after the trade package and contract extension he gave Adams.
We’ve gone from dumb to dumber going from Dell to Griff geez….
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:45 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
3 1sts
All 1sts aren't equal. This is a little old but the trend should hold LINK / Basically there's a 40% chance of a player of Graham's caliber or better in the 19-27 range. There's a 60% chance it's a very end of rotation player or worse. So in 3 picks only having Graham to show for it isn't unexpected.
I still think Griff paying a 1st for Graham and not getting more out of Chicago illustrates a pretty glaring weakness in his deal making ability. But as I said, once you tally up what's been lost, the losses feel worse than they actually are.
quote:
If someone told you that we would trade Ball and 4 1sts, one being #4 overall, wouldn't you think you would have more to show for it than Graham, NAW and Hayes?
NAW and Jaxson have to step up. Potentially both are good starters. But if it doesn't click for them then the volume approach over taking star potential in Garland or solid starter in Hunter will be another mistake. Honestly those 2 are probably what will make or break Griff as you tally up all the positives and negatives.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 4:55 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
All 1sts aren't equal.
I agree, but like I said in other threads, Griff is taking loss after loss on almost every trade he makes. Those little losses are adding up. If he makes the Horford trade instead of Adams, we’d be plus two on frp instead of minus two.
We could have made a run for SGA this off-season. Thunder supposedly had him on the block for the right price. Those four plus the one for Graham makes 5. Throw those 5 and say NAW, the Lakers unprotected pick, in the pot, and I think the thunder are listening. Unless u think Graham’s a better player than SGA?
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 9:21 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
Griff is taking loss after loss on almost every trade he makes
Nobody is saying otherwise. I've already said I hope all of the negative attention has caused a redistribution of power behind the scenes.
quote:
Thunder supposedly had him on the block for the right price.
They were reportedly trying to get a top 3 pick in this draft. Quantity =/= Quality when they were targeting something so specific and high quality.
Would a team take the entire Lakers bundle of picks or the Bucks bundle in a Trade Deadline trade for an All Star caliber player? I think they would. Would they take it in an offseason trade when the top 4 picks and top 4 prospects are known quantities? I don't think they would. Any major trade the Pels make probably needs to happen during the season where all the picks are future picks and they don't have to compete with concrete, present values.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 9:41 pm to TigerinATL
It doesn’t have to be SGA, I’m just using him as an example. Could be another young player similar to him that wants out.
And like I said yea we could probably use the bucks package to get that all star but if Griff did it right from the start and took on a few bad contracts and gained more assets for contracts that would come off the books before zions contract extension would have been the way to go. Then we could cash in all those assets for said player and still not have touched the Lakers and bucks picks.
And like I said yea we could probably use the bucks package to get that all star but if Griff did it right from the start and took on a few bad contracts and gained more assets for contracts that would come off the books before zions contract extension would have been the way to go. Then we could cash in all those assets for said player and still not have touched the Lakers and bucks picks.
Posted on 8/27/21 at 11:29 pm to GOP_Tiger
Cleveland is literally retarded and that’s part of the reason why I am
especially high on Sexton. Knowing that Cleveland doesn’t internally value him, makes me value him even more.
especially high on Sexton. Knowing that Cleveland doesn’t internally value him, makes me value him even more.
This post was edited on 8/27/21 at 11:30 pm
Posted on 8/27/21 at 11:34 pm to Townedrunkard
This probably isn’t the right time or place for this, but in the event the Zion situation doesn’t work out long term.
Dealing Zion for an extended SGA and several of their picks would not be a bad exit strategy
We’d have
SGA
Nickeil- I think SGA would be happy and willing to play here with his cousin. That would be badass
Ingram
Murphy
Hayes
Graham
Naji
Our picks, Laker picks, bucks picks, OKC picks
Whatever we decide to do with Jonas, Hart, Kira
We’d still be in a reasonable spot. Especially after we fire Griff for blowing the Zion situation.
Dealing Zion for an extended SGA and several of their picks would not be a bad exit strategy
We’d have
SGA
Nickeil- I think SGA would be happy and willing to play here with his cousin. That would be badass
Ingram
Murphy
Hayes
Graham
Naji
Our picks, Laker picks, bucks picks, OKC picks
Whatever we decide to do with Jonas, Hart, Kira
We’d still be in a reasonable spot. Especially after we fire Griff for blowing the Zion situation.
Posted on 8/28/21 at 12:02 am to 3PieceSpicy
Wow, it gets worse with Griffin-
quote:
Eric Pincus
@EricPincus
·
15m
Minor housekeeping, I'm not sure if this was previously reported but the Pelicans are sending $2 mil in cash to the Hornets in the Devonte' Graham deal from 8/7/21
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