re: Charlottesville unanimously votes to remove Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson statues

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the war was not just abut slavery

the north had slaves. lincoln gave zero fricks about slaves and wanted them sent back to africa he only cared about the union. educate yourself and read his words.

blacks owned saves in the south. less than 7% of southerners owned slaves. they fought for family and state

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They fought for propaganda, the same reason almost anybody volunteers to fight a war.

Lincoln isn't the one who seceded. I already quoted the Vice President of the damn Confederacy. If you won't believe him I don't know what to tell you.

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The left always tries to erase history. They are kind of like the Taliban in that regard.

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They are not erasing history - at least not in this case.

They are changing whom we memorialize as our values change. These men fought for the odious institution of slavery. In my opinion, they should not be memorialized. Their odious actions and choices should be taught as part of history, and that's just what is beng done.

It's remarkable to me that so many of you, most of whom surely think slavery in 1860 was wrong, still think we should have statues of the folks who defended slavery.

Read Shelby Foote or S Ambrose neither says the war was over slavery.
R E Lee was loved by Union officers ( many whom he taught with at West Point) or served with in The Mexican War.
Union soldiers loved Stonewall Jackson and many cried upon news of his death. Both were native sons of Virginia!

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They are not erasing history - at least not in this case.

They are changing whom we memorialize as our values change. These men fought for the odious institution of slavery. In my opinion, they should not be memorialized. Their odious actions and choices should be taught as part of history, and that's just what is beng done.

It's remarkable to me that so many of you, most of whom surely think slavery in 1860 was wrong, still think we should have statues of the folks who defended slavery.

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Eh, I mean this is a good basis for making the move

But this probably isn't the actual basis for making the move

And I disagree, the left is intent on stripping nuance from history and labeling it objectively bad so that can eliminate the lessons/guidance from those times. They're not removing the statue to move on and celebrate something else. They're moving the statue for the same reason people get beheaded or hung from overpasses - it signifies that they were obviously bad/wrong/not to be listened to or respected. It's a discrediting move in order to usher in something equally vile in idea, if not in practice.

I wonder if I could get one of them for my yard…

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These men fought for the odious institution of slavery.

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The amount of leaders, military or not, who stood for, fought for and did some problematic actions is a lot longer of a list than "The Confederacy." This stuff is a part of history. It's a part of knowing where we were and where we are.

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still think we should have statues of the folks who defended slavery.

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This wasn't all they stood for, or all they did. It was one part of their complicated lives - complicated lives that we all share. It's best to be precise about history, not to create politicized narratives of it. There are lots and lots of regrets in there that we have to understand.

Why don't we tear down every politician who celebrated Robert Byrd, you know, like our current President?

ETA: I would very much for re-orienting history correctly. Placing these sorts of things in correct contexts, which may mean moving statues (I would never tear down to destroy). However, this is ALL politicized. This is all about narrative control and division. This has 0 to do with an honest conversation about ourselves and history. As much as people want to think that's what this is. It isn't. It's about division, not unity. Strangely enough.

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If you destroy our history, you destroy our culture, and we will disappear. And that’s what they want.

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I generally agree

That said, I care more about the Christian identity and American identity than I do a southern or white identity. Of course, they're coming for all of those. The statues and the attack on Civil War figures doesn't personally bother me in substance, but I am leery of it because it's obviously a step toward attacks on revolutionary figures and constitutional ideals and Christian values, etc. etc.

I'm kind of surprised they're spending much time on us at all TBH, southerners have been largely discredited for decades

But it's probably to get the masses use to saying "oh well he wasn't a very nice guy so a mob tearing down that statue in the middle of the night isn't the worst thing ever." That way when we're tearing down pieces of churches or statues of Washington you'll just roll your eyes and go "well they're at it again I guess"

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I don’t know.

I’m a Southerner, and I’m a Virginian, but what does America mean to me?

Is it the endlessly consumer and mercantile society that the North built, after the Civil War? Is it New York City, and the people who live there? Is it Silicon Valley, and California?

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I get the idea, but you now live in a blue state with some of the bluest of the blue and swampiest of the swamp. So looking at America's current state and questioning that identity I understand, but wouldn't the same apply to VA?

Anyway, America to me: The country that popularized radical ideas of liberalism, like pluralism and being guided by reason and celebrating the individual while still honoring your God and contributing to your community. A country that for a long time put family on a pedestal, that more or less saved the world a couple of times, that for all its faults acted often in its best interest with the goal of limiting the harm to others (a pretty radically western concept that is still not universally shared).

You can say those things aren't around anymore, and that half the country doesn't celebrate them and you're right. But that's still the identity I care about most that is coming under attack (to be contrasted with being southern, or being white). For example, I have no real pride in being white. I have no shame either, it's just not something that means anything to me or provides any unity with other white people. It just is.