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Started By
Message
re: Charlottesville unanimously votes to remove Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson statues
Posted on 6/11/21 at 1:30 am to AURaptor
Posted on 6/11/21 at 1:30 am to AURaptor
quote:Nope, the Commies don't have anyone with the skills or the guts to go up there and sandblast jack.
f Stacy Abram’s wins the governorship here in Georgia, Stone Mountain will be sandblasted within 30 days.
0
Posted on 6/11/21 at 7:04 am to LSUconvert
quote:
You're giving the people on this board way too much credit.
Unfortunately you are correct IME.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 7:07 am to Ghost Hog
quote:
You are no student of history.
1. I never claimed I was. I do know basic things.
2. You and the other guy apparently cannot read. Shall I post the dictionary definition of the word "commonplace?"
Posted on 6/11/21 at 7:12 am to Freauxzen
quote:
However, this is ALL politicized. This is all about narrative control and division. This has 0 to do with an honest conversation about ourselves and history. As much as people want to think that's what this is. It isn't. It's about division, not unity. Strangely enough.
O.k., but the vast majority of the damn statues went up in the first place as political statements.
Just like flying the Confederate Battle flag did. That wasn't a popular flag until the 1950s, for crying out loud, and it was used to raise a middle finger to the idea of civil rights and integration and intimidate black people. It has nothing to do with "heritage." It was a very minor flag in the historical context of its time.
If the above is really your intention, these politically motivated symbols are the first thing that should go. They can go to a museum, sure. But they need to go.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 7:16 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Lee and Jackson were great men. And men we should all strive to emulate.
So you agree with the Vice President of the Confederacy that black people are inferior to white people and that their subjugation under white people's boot is the natural order?
Because according to that Vice President of the Confederacy, Lee and Jackson fought for that ideal. That was the cornerstone of the secession. Not my words. His.
Y'all are so racist here sometimes I cannot believe it.
Literally.
I cannot believe there are educated people walking around in 2021 who think this way.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 9:29 am to wackatimesthree
Just where is the Robert E. Lee statue that was removed from Lee Circle?
Posted on 6/11/21 at 9:32 am to wackatimesthree
You are linking "educated" with intelligent individuals. Big mistake. Liberal pussy 2021 Males are just about the most stupid individuals walking.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 9:43 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
So you agree with the Vice President of the Confederacy that black people are inferior to white people and that their subjugation under white people's boot is the natural order?
You should read what Lincoln himself said about that very subject, but you won't. He essentially said the exact same thing that you attribute to the Confederate Vice President. Dig deeper into the history of that era. You will be surprised at what you learn.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 9:57 am to Pettifogger
quote:
That way when we're tearing down pieces of churches or statues of Washington you'll just roll your eyes and go "well they're at it again I guess"
Ding ding ding.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 10:04 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
O.k., but the vast majority of the damn statues went up in the first place as political statements.
A few sure, not all. Every culture erects statues for a variety of reason to honor or celebrate something. Just because someone was a confederate, doesn't mean they were a completely bad person.
Again, if the litmus test for a person is literally having every currently accepted moral stance - we should have no statues of any person. My guess is if someone like Harriet Tubman saw two dudes kissing, she'd probably have a visceral negative reaction, as would ANYONE in the 17 or 1800s.
Can't celebrate her either.
quote:
Just like flying the Confederate Battle flag did. That wasn't a popular flag until the 1950s, for crying out loud, and it was used to raise a middle finger to the idea of civil rights and integration and intimidate black people. It has nothing to do with "heritage." It was a very minor flag in the historical context of its time.
Well, I didn't say the flag wasn't a problem. However, I do think it's ok to celebrate "Southern Pride" if it's ok to celebrate other prides. But yes, the rise of the flag with civil rights is somewhat problematic. It was taken beyond that, eventually.
quote:
If the above is really your intention, these politically motivated symbols are the first thing that should go. They can go to a museum, sure. But they need to go.
Then all symbols should go and we're back to the 1984 quote.
This post was edited on 6/11/21 at 10:06 am
Posted on 6/11/21 at 2:00 pm to Freauxzen
The Democrats passed a law last year, stripping monuments and war memorials of their legal protection.
Under that law, third parties may ask for a statue when it is removed, a historical society for example, but the Democrats are not required to honor any of those requests.
And it the Democrats ultimately want to destroy a monument, that is fully permissible.
Under that law, third parties may ask for a statue when it is removed, a historical society for example, but the Democrats are not required to honor any of those requests.
And it the Democrats ultimately want to destroy a monument, that is fully permissible.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:20 pm to BFIV
quote:
You should read what Lincoln himself said about that very subject, but you won't. He essentially said the exact same thing that you attribute to the Confederate Vice President.
If Lincoln also said the cornerstone of the secession movement was the idea that the natural order of human interaction is that white people should enslave black people, how in the hell would that prove that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery?
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:26 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
A few sure, not all.
No, not a few. The vast majority. Which is what I said.
quote:
Again, if the litmus test for a person is literally having every currently accepted moral stance - we should have no statues of any person.
No one said anything about that. YOU SAID that the dialogue regarding the statues is politically motivated, with the strong intention being that the political intentions invalidates the dialogue.
I'm using your own standard here, not anything you just posted above. If political intentions invalidate the discussion, then they invalidate the statues themselves as well, for the same reason.
quote:
Then all symbols should go and we're back to the 1984 quote.
That's asinine for two reasons.
1. It's basically saying that if any statues are inappropriate, then all statues are inappropriate, which is downright silly.
2. THIS IS YOUR STANDARD we're using here. YOU are the one who posted that the intentions behind expression are invalidated if they are less than 100% sincere.
Those statues went up as a way to raise a middle finger to the union. For southern communities to express resentment.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:29 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Those statues went up as a way to raise a middle finger to the union. For southern communities to express resentment.
Even if true for all, which it's not, so what?
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:34 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Those statues went up as a way to raise a middle finger to the union. For southern communities to express resentment.
And?
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:34 pm to Lima Whiskey
I’ve found the vast majority of monument haters to be second and third generation to this country. They weren’t passed down the same value system that most native born Southerners were, the most important of which is family. Every one of my ancestors during that era were confederate soldiers. I’m not going to judge my ancestors by the standards I live by today.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:42 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
No one said anything about that. YOU SAID that the dialogue regarding the statues is politically motivated, with the strong intention being that the political intentions invalidates the dialogue.
I'm using your own standard here, not anything you just posted above. If political intentions invalidate the discussion, then they invalidate the statues themselves as well, for the same reason.
Politically motivated, yes, but that motivation is pointed at because of what are currently unacceptable moral standards - which is ok - were held by people of a certain regional affiliation. Slavery is wrong and should not be celebrated. But having a statue is not a "celebration," it's a historical monument. Nothing more. No one goes and pops champagne around a state of Robert E Lee. And he wasn't a terrible person, he had different moral positions from a long time ago.
Which is fine, I understand, but that means all Statues should be judged the same way. That's the standard. You can't stop at judging just the confederacy. We should pull down all statues of people with unacceptable morals when put against modern morals.
Anyone against homosexuality - should come down now as well.
quote:
1. It's basically saying that if any statues are inappropriate, then all statues are inappropriate, which is downright silly.
Wrong. It's saying all statues should be judged according to modern moral standards. If they don't pass, they should come down. That's the standard we SHOULD be setting by taking Confederate statues down.
This post was edited on 6/11/21 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:45 pm to BFIV
quote:If Lincoln was exactly the same as the Confederate Vice President/ Confederates why did 10 Southern states remove him from 1860 Presidential ballots? Why did Southern states then secede from the Union when Lincoln was elected ( before he was even sworn in)?
. He essentially said the exact same thing that you attribute to the Confederate Vice President. Dig deeper into the history of that era. You will be surprised at what you learn.
Lincoln was literally one of them according to Neo-Confederates
This post was edited on 6/11/21 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:49 pm to sugar71
quote:No.
Lincoln was literally one of them according to Neo-Confederates
But if you ever actually take time to read what he did say and feel, you'll want him cancelled as well.
His statues will need to come down too.
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