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Started By
Message
re: Charlottesville unanimously votes to remove Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson statues
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:54 pm to rb
Posted on 6/11/21 at 3:54 pm to rb
I agree
- Edmund Burke
We have a genuine obligation to the people who came before us.
quote:
Society is indeed a contract. It is a partnership in all science; a partnership in all art; a partnership in every virtue, and in all perfection. As the ends of such a partnership cannot be obtained in many generations, it becomes a partnership not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.
- Edmund Burke
We have a genuine obligation to the people who came before us.
0
Posted on 6/11/21 at 4:42 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:No . I took time & read what he actually DID and I don't care about staues to mere public servants like Lincoln.
No.
But if you ever actually take time to read what he did say and feel, you'll want him cancelled as well.
His statues will need to come down too.
1) Lincolns first Bill as a young Congressman was to abolish slavery in D.C. ( failed).
2) wrote a scathing rebuke/outraged at the Dred Scott Decision
3) Outraged at the Kansas - Nebraska act. Coaxed a severely depressed Lincoln back into politics.
4) Ran as 1st Presidential candidate in the anti slavery party( GOP)
5) Accepted 200,000 Black volunteer soldiers ( 26 Medals of Honor in less than 2 years )to help fight against/ slaughter his fellow White Southerners.
6) Signed Emancipation Proclamation
7) Pushed for Black Voting rights in his final speech ( 100 years before the voting Rights Act).
8) Fought for & signed the 13th Amendment
Lincoln was the same as the Confederates.
I believe several others could have been just as good or much better/ decisive Presidents than Lincoln, but..... many times in 2 party politics. 
Posted on 6/11/21 at 4:49 pm to sugar71
quote:I think sugar 71 is right here. Sure, Lincoln was a pragmatist and he looked for practical solutions to the slavery issue. He wasn't woke by today's standards.
1) Lincolns first Bill as a young Congressman was to abolish slavery in D.C. ( failed).
2) wrote a scathing rebuke/outraged at the Dred Scott Decision
3) Outraged at the Kansas - Nebraska act. Coaxed a severely depressed Lincoln back into politics.
4) Ran as 1st Presidential candidate in the anti slavery party( GOP)
5) Accepted 200,000 Black volunteer soldiers ( 26 Medals of Honor in less than 2 years )to help fight against/ slaughter his fellow White Southerners.
6) Signed Emancipation Proclamation
7) Pushed for Black Voting rights in his final speech ( 100 years before the voting Rights Act).
8) Fought for & signed the 13th Amendment
But the Republican Party was founded as an anti-slavery party, and the Confederate states started seceding as soon as Lincoln was elected. They certainly saw Lincoln as a threat to slavery. And in his heart and soul, Lincoln despised slavery.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 5:10 pm to L.A.
FWIW, Lee was against the statues in the first place.
quote:
I think it wiser," the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, "…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."
quote:
"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."
Posted on 6/11/21 at 5:58 pm to L.A.
quote:
And in his heart and soul, Lincoln despised slavery.
He despised slavery.
He also thought blacks were intrinsically inferior to whites.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 5:59 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:Did anyone living during Lincoln's time disagree with that?
He also thought blacks were intrinsically inferior to whites.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 8:06 pm to L.A.
quote:
Did anyone living during Lincoln's time disagree with that?
Very few. And people thought they were lunatics.
Posted on 6/11/21 at 8:17 pm to L.A.
quote:
Did anyone living during Lincoln's time disagree with that?
Isn't this the whole point of the discussion, which is flying over sugar's head?
Posted on 6/11/21 at 8:18 pm to sugar71
quote:
Lincoln was the same as the Confederates.
You're making this statement up. No one has said this.
Posted on 6/12/21 at 2:25 am to L.A.
quote:I don't judge Lincoln/ others by today's standards , but I do compare them to their peers. Even Lincoln falls short compared to other politicians like Thad Stevens , Charles Sumner or more moderates like Seward or Hannibal Hamlin. I'm aware that politicians I'd vote for would have a difficult time being elected President in 1860( Salmon P Chase, Thad Stevens, Charles Sumner , etc...were considered " extremists" in 1860)
I think sugar 71 is right here. Sure, Lincoln was a pragmatist and he looked for practical solutions to the slavery issue. He wasn't woke by today's standards.
But the Republican Party was founded as an anti-slavery party, and the Confederate states started seceding as soon as Lincoln was elected. They certainly saw Lincoln as a threat to slavery. And in his heart and soul, Lincoln despised slavery.
I'd have preferred William Seward over Lincoln out of the moderates , but........ Lincoln eventually did the right thing with pressure from within his party. I believe the Emancipation Proclamation would have been issued years before & Black troops allowed to volunteer years before had Seward been President instead of Lincoln. The war may not have dragged on as long with President Seward instead of Lincoln.
Posted on 6/12/21 at 3:11 am to VBFlorida
History matters …
Posted on 6/12/21 at 6:18 am to L.A.
quote:Not the point ... at all. Despising slavery has nothing to do with the need for cancellation. Ask the ghost of abolitionist H.C.Heg.
Lincoln despised slavery
The statue of poor Hans Heg was ripped down by Sugar71's ANTIFA buddies, and dragged down a street. There is no reason Lincoln, who had his own racial flaws, should not get the Hans Heg treatment.
...and, left to CRT proponents, he will.
Posted on 6/12/21 at 6:45 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:Yet he allowed 200,000 Black soldiers to fight against/ slaughter his fellow Superior Whites & eventually assured they received equal pay. The South could not stomach the idea of Black soldiers although they had a near unlimited resource of them. Lincoln was only a flawed politician/ man. I only defend him against the moral equivalency comparisons to Confederates.
He despised slavery.
He also thought blacks were intrinsically inferior to whites.
I truly feel someone like William Seward would have issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1861 & allowed Blacks to serve the same year possibly ending the Civil War earlier. Lincoln's wavering/ indecisiveness dragged the war on too long.
Posted on 6/12/21 at 6:56 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:Nothing flying over Ole Shug's head. The moral equivalency of Abraham Lincoln to Confederates is absurd.
Isn't this the whole point of the discussion, which is flying over sugar's head?
No matter how flawed a man & Politician I believe Lincoln to be.
Posted on 6/12/21 at 7:11 am to sugar71
quote:Right. Your buddies not doubt said the same of Heg, as they dragged his statue down and cancelled him. And we haven't even gotten into Lincoln's chauvinism.
I only defend him against the moral equivalency
....conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all MEN are created equal....
IAW critical theory, we need to erase Lincoln, that misogynistic SOB. He's nothing but a stain on women's rights.
Posted on 6/12/21 at 7:14 am to sugar71
quote:Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase! Smear! Defile! TearDown! Destroy! Erase!
flawed a man & Politician I believe Lincoln to be.
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