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re: Jayson Tatum vs Brandon Ingram tOfficial Debate
Posted on 6/5/19 at 8:28 am to NOSHAU
Posted on 6/5/19 at 8:28 am to NOSHAU
I think from a what's the better known package, the Boston deal would be better, especially if it had Brown in it.
But for me, i want the potential to draft a Damian Lillard, or Russell Westbrook, and i'm not saying Culver or Garland or White or Hunter will end up being All-NBA players, but there is the possibility of it.
You know what you're getting with Tatum/Brown/Smart. None are superstars imo, but obviously really good players. Good chance they are all better than the #4 and #6 picks of this years draft. But there's also the chance that Garland is the next Lillard, or Culver turns into Jimmy Butler, or Hunter is the next Kawhi. There's also a chance they are busts.
I guess since we've only drafted one guy pretty much since AD/Rivers, in Buddy, i get a bit too excited about the prospect of drafting someone.
The Lakers trade just has more upside in my eyes, even if that upside isn't a high probability. Hell if the #4 pick turned out to be as good as Tatum we'd be thrilled. It's the what if's that get me intrigued.
But for me, i want the potential to draft a Damian Lillard, or Russell Westbrook, and i'm not saying Culver or Garland or White or Hunter will end up being All-NBA players, but there is the possibility of it.
You know what you're getting with Tatum/Brown/Smart. None are superstars imo, but obviously really good players. Good chance they are all better than the #4 and #6 picks of this years draft. But there's also the chance that Garland is the next Lillard, or Culver turns into Jimmy Butler, or Hunter is the next Kawhi. There's also a chance they are busts.
I guess since we've only drafted one guy pretty much since AD/Rivers, in Buddy, i get a bit too excited about the prospect of drafting someone.
The Lakers trade just has more upside in my eyes, even if that upside isn't a high probability. Hell if the #4 pick turned out to be as good as Tatum we'd be thrilled. It's the what if's that get me intrigued.
1
Posted on 6/5/19 at 8:37 am to NOSHAU
Agree 100%. Plus Tatum seems like he’s just an easier fit on a team esp one with Zion. Not to mention Tatum means AD to the East. Lakers will have to severely overpay to trade within conference.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 9:52 am to TeddyPadillac
I just really don't want 3 top 10 rookies especially from this class
Spread it out
Spread it out
Posted on 6/5/19 at 10:13 am to LosLobos111
quote:
I just really don't want 3 top 10 rookies especially from this class
I agree. I'd prefer Zion and #4, and then a first next year from Phoenix/Chicago for Ball, maybe give them top 2 protected or something like that.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 11:47 am to TeddyPadillac
Tatum/Smart/#14 pick this year and the Memphis pick seems to be the agreed upon package we would receive from Boston (atleast those are the valued assets)
That deal is FAR more valuable than Ingram/#4/#6/Hart.
It's not really close even. The Knicks deal is also much more attractive. I think New York vs Boston is a good debate. The Lakers can't come close to either of those offers, unless they find a way to get #2 from Memphis. They just can't. Their assets are terrible and that hasn't changed since the trade deadline offer. The 4th pick in a 3 man draft didn't give them enough ammo to beat Boston or New York.
That deal is FAR more valuable than Ingram/#4/#6/Hart.
It's not really close even. The Knicks deal is also much more attractive. I think New York vs Boston is a good debate. The Lakers can't come close to either of those offers, unless they find a way to get #2 from Memphis. They just can't. Their assets are terrible and that hasn't changed since the trade deadline offer. The 4th pick in a 3 man draft didn't give them enough ammo to beat Boston or New York.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 11:53 am to LosLobos111
Agreed. I'd rather just get Zion then a prosoect like Doumbouya with the Sac pick from Boston, plus whatever we do with our 2nds. Everything else, push it to the future drafts.
Posted on 6/5/19 at 12:20 pm to Chad504boy
Not reading through this. Tatum. 8 days a week
Posted on 6/5/19 at 12:26 pm to Lester Earl
re lonzo
thats how unlikely it is that lonzo will ever be a plus-3pt shooter
quote:
The only guys who have shot worse than 45% from the line and better than 30% from 3 in a season, with any reasonable volume, are Lonzo, Nick Anderson and...Bruce Bowen.
thats how unlikely it is that lonzo will ever be a plus-3pt shooter
Posted on 6/5/19 at 12:31 pm to cgrand
Those are some pretty good shooters
And they have some 60%+ seasons mixed just like Lonzo had in college
And they have some 60%+ seasons mixed just like Lonzo had in college
Posted on 6/5/19 at 1:28 pm to Lester Earl
quote:But at what point does what he did in college become irrelevant?
Those are some pretty good shooters
And they have some 60%+ seasons mixed just like Lonzo had in college
Posted on 6/5/19 at 2:36 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
But at what point does what he did in college become irrelevant?
I mean they are both still college-aged, and most guys continue to develop up until 25-27.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 8:17 am to Lester Earl
To bring this back to Tatum vs Ingram. I know advanced stats are not everything, but they tell the story that Ingram is a marginal rotational player and Tatum is an above average starter.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 8:23 am to saints5021
quote:
To bring this back to Tatum vs Ingram. I know advanced stats are not everything, but they tell the story that Ingram is a marginal rotational player and Tatum is an above average starter.
The don't tell the story of the situation the two were in with their coach and teammates.
What did Victor Oladipo's advanced stats tell us about him in his first few years compared to his last 2 Indy years?
Posted on 6/6/19 at 8:28 am to saints5021
pEr
Posted on 6/6/19 at 9:12 am to GynoSandberg
I still feel Tatum is going to be better than Tatum. The Celtics still hae one of the better packages. Just feel like he plays more efficiently and he's already a plus shooter. Ingram will improve to be a high volume scorer who needs a lot of touches. Tatum will do more when he knows he'll get the ball back if he passes. Our offense will move.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 9:18 am to Eman5805
Look, a lot of smart people like Griffin, or even Corndeaux on here seem to think Ingram is pretty good so I'll temper my position to "maybe I'm wrong, we will see".
People get too entrenched in positions. So I'll defer and see what happens and if it pans out.
People get too entrenched in positions. So I'll defer and see what happens and if it pans out.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 9:45 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
What did Victor Oladipo's advanced stats tell us about him in his first few years compared to his last 2 Indy years?
Funny you should ask. Here is Oladipo's PER his 3 years in Orlando:
Year 1 - 13.6
Year 2 - 15.9
Year 3 - 16.7
In Ingram's best season (2017-2018), he barely had a higher PER (13.8) than Oladipo's rookie season.
Oladipo's worst Orlando season had him as a rotational player, with his best Orlando season having him as a Third offensive option. Ingram has only had 1 of 3 years as anything other than a Non-rotational player to a fringe roster player.
This post was edited on 6/6/19 at 9:47 am
Posted on 6/6/19 at 9:50 am to saints5021
Now throw in Tatum's PER for his 2 seasons (15.3 and 15.1), and he has been marginally better than Oladipo in his first two seasons, but significantly better than Ingram.
We know Tatum has the higher floor, but based on his other intangibles, I think he has the higher ceiling as well.
We know Tatum has the higher floor, but based on his other intangibles, I think he has the higher ceiling as well.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 9:59 am to saints5021
quote:
Funny you should ask. Here is Oladipo's PER his 3 years in Orlando:
Year 1 - 13.6
Year 2 - 15.9
Year 3 - 16.7
My point was you look at Oladipo in the shitty situation in Orlando, and he wasn't doing much. You look at him in Indiana, and he's an all-star.
Who's to say Ingram can't make a huge jump like Oladipo did? I really don't care about any stats from Ingram, or even Tatum, from last year. Both were in weird situations. I'm sure if Lebron didn't come over, Ingram's stats would look better and you'd see more improvement.
Kryie had a PER around 20 playing with Lebron. Goes to Boston and it jets up to 25. all his advanced stats went up going to Boston. Playing with Lebron makes you a different player.
Posted on 6/6/19 at 10:03 am to TeddyPadillac
My point is that Oladipo, in a equally or worse situation, was consistently better from the start of his career through his third year. Not saying Ingram can't be an allstar one day, but his advanced stats say he will be lucky to be an above average starter one day.
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