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The Historical Argument for Keeping AD
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:11 am
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:11 am
In the last 35 years, only two franchises have gotten the #1 pick a won a title with that guy.
And in both situations, they had another #1 pick who was taken years before and was in his prime, but some weird shite happened
Spurs - Robinson and Duncan
Cavs - LBJ and Kyrie
You need a lot of top tier talent and a lot of luck to win it all in this league. Pels situation, in some ways, mirror both of these historical precedents. Might be foolish to trade AD if the end goal is a ring. #1 picks don't seem to win it all with the team that drafted them otherwise. The last one before that who did was Hakeem, who was taken first in the pre-lotto era.
And in both situations, they had another #1 pick who was taken years before and was in his prime, but some weird shite happened
Spurs - Robinson and Duncan
Cavs - LBJ and Kyrie
You need a lot of top tier talent and a lot of luck to win it all in this league. Pels situation, in some ways, mirror both of these historical precedents. Might be foolish to trade AD if the end goal is a ring. #1 picks don't seem to win it all with the team that drafted them otherwise. The last one before that who did was Hakeem, who was taken first in the pre-lotto era.
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Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:18 am to Crewz
if AD signs the supermax, fine keep him, if not trade his arse
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:25 am to geauxtigers87
I don't think its that cut and dry. Unfortunately, at fans, we will only see the major results coming out of that meeting. Either he will sign the contract or opt in or nothing.
But I think a lot of sincere words and promises can be said in that meeting that could make me feel comfortable going into the season with AD on my roster and no extension signed yet.
I will say this -- It is not AD or Rich Paul I am worried about. There is another figure that I think is most important for Griffin to win over. If he is open minded, I would feel good about AD staying. If not, I ship out AD in June.
But I think a lot of sincere words and promises can be said in that meeting that could make me feel comfortable going into the season with AD on my roster and no extension signed yet.
I will say this -- It is not AD or Rich Paul I am worried about. There is another figure that I think is most important for Griffin to win over. If he is open minded, I would feel good about AD staying. If not, I ship out AD in June.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:26 am to Crewz
I’m guessing you mean his dad?
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:28 am to BallHawk
Nah, I think it's Tim Frazier.
This post was edited on 5/19/19 at 8:29 am
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:28 am to Crewz
That’s a very narrow way of looking at things, just through the prism of a #1 pick. I understand the argument at its base, but it’s somewhat disingenuous.
The reality is that you need, in today’s NBA, either multiple elite players (regardless of where they were picked), or incredible luck in surrounding a transcendent player with the perfect mix of very good players at just the right time in all of their careers and contracts.
As much as I bitch about it, if AD wants to be here, it’s a no brainer. You have to try and keep him around, and have to trust Griffin to assemble the rest of the team. 2 superstars > 1 superstar. As much as I’ve tried to play devil’s advocate otherwise, this is a superstar league. If you have some, you’ll win, if you don’t you probably won’t, past 7 years not withstanding.
Regardless though, if he doesn’t want to be here, you have to maximize the return based around the ability to get at least one potential elite talent and then multiple pieces that are very good or complimentary. Trust your talent evaluators.
We may not have a choice regardless. We may have to attempt to surround Zion in a similar way to what the Bucks did.
The reality is that you need, in today’s NBA, either multiple elite players (regardless of where they were picked), or incredible luck in surrounding a transcendent player with the perfect mix of very good players at just the right time in all of their careers and contracts.
As much as I bitch about it, if AD wants to be here, it’s a no brainer. You have to try and keep him around, and have to trust Griffin to assemble the rest of the team. 2 superstars > 1 superstar. As much as I’ve tried to play devil’s advocate otherwise, this is a superstar league. If you have some, you’ll win, if you don’t you probably won’t, past 7 years not withstanding.
Regardless though, if he doesn’t want to be here, you have to maximize the return based around the ability to get at least one potential elite talent and then multiple pieces that are very good or complimentary. Trust your talent evaluators.
We may not have a choice regardless. We may have to attempt to surround Zion in a similar way to what the Bucks did.
This post was edited on 5/19/19 at 8:36 am
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:34 am to Crewz
quote:
Message
The Historical Argument for Keeping AD by Crewz
I don't think its that cut and dry. Unfortunately, at fans, we will only see the major results coming out of that meeting. Either he will sign the contract or opt in or nothing.
I’m sorry but no. It is that cut and dry.
If he doesn’t agree to opt in by a certain time or sign the max, you just cannot go into the season with him. You have to maximize your value and ability to obtain other talent.
I know you’re trying to lay the base here for multiple scenarios and to play devils advocate for them, but you simply cannot support allowing this to slide into the season without any extra years, if legit offers are on the table this offseason.
We can, however, propagate that sentiment in the hopes that other teams believe it.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:41 am to Fun Bunch
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think he means they’ll keep him if he doesn’t opt in. I think it still means he’s only going into the season with the Pels if he signs extension or opts into 2020-2021.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:41 am to Fun Bunch
I’m assuming as I read Crewz’s posts on AD opting in for the additional year, that he is meaning this happens in a timely fashion. If AD refuses to sign before the season, then to me that is him refusing and you trade him. I don’t think there is any way Griffin allows this situation to linger into camp. You have to think that after what lebron did to him every year in Cleveland he would want some kind of commitment from AD in a timely fashion.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:42 am to BallHawk
To me his post implies no contract or opt in. Which is a no from me dog
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:44 am to Crewz
So AD is not adult enough to make a decision himself
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:45 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
To me his post implies no contract or opt in. Which is a no from me dog
Same way I read it, and I agree.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:49 am to Crewz
If goal is to win championships, then you have to take calculated risks.
Keeping AD probably gives this franchise the best chance to win a championship. With that said, I think you have to keep him no matter what and continue to sell him and be confident that your vision will sell him over time, if in fact your goal is to give this franchise the best chance at winning a championship.
If the goal is to make sure you get great value for Davis then you trade him in June and this your low risk, play it safe move.
Keeping AD probably gives this franchise the best chance to win a championship. With that said, I think you have to keep him no matter what and continue to sell him and be confident that your vision will sell him over time, if in fact your goal is to give this franchise the best chance at winning a championship.
If the goal is to make sure you get great value for Davis then you trade him in June and this your low risk, play it safe move.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:54 am to PelicanFever
The problem I have with this is I see Barrett as a major talent coming out. Would I choose a five year deal with Ad over Barrett... sure but thats not the case. Barrett will be able to get buckets day 1 in the league. He compares to Harden by most guys. I woudlnt ever compare a guy thats never played a game in NBA to a multi time all star but hes already better at some things then Harden early on. Hes a better finisher at the rim than Harden was coming out. Better defender with his length. Harden was obviously a better ball handler, shooter and free throw shooter. Barrett is also a great passer and playmaker. Maybe Im just higher on him than most but I see a star in this guy.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:57 am to PelicanFever
I think AD can make decisions for himself. But if all the people in your life, including the most important ones, tell you that you need to get out of something, it is hard not to listen.
But I keep coming back to Rich Paul, AD, and his inner circle being soured on Demps and the Pels ownerships buy in version from December. If Gayle was this focused on the franchise then and Griffin was in place, I don't think the mess would have happened.
I don't believe AD and Rich Paul are these evil geniuses and schemers who do everything at Lebron's whim. I think Rich Paul saw an all time great player being wasted by a franchise that had a terrible foundation and was 3rd priority towards the ownership. AD's inner circle saw this too. They met in September and laid out all the options - one of which being, 'If this shite don't change soon, I will get your son out of there"
Now, the way it was handled wasn't ideal but I get it from their perspective. As I have been telling you guys for years, the franchise was a joke. It isn't any more, so I am good with a clean slate for both sides if he is too
But I keep coming back to Rich Paul, AD, and his inner circle being soured on Demps and the Pels ownerships buy in version from December. If Gayle was this focused on the franchise then and Griffin was in place, I don't think the mess would have happened.
I don't believe AD and Rich Paul are these evil geniuses and schemers who do everything at Lebron's whim. I think Rich Paul saw an all time great player being wasted by a franchise that had a terrible foundation and was 3rd priority towards the ownership. AD's inner circle saw this too. They met in September and laid out all the options - one of which being, 'If this shite don't change soon, I will get your son out of there"
Now, the way it was handled wasn't ideal but I get it from their perspective. As I have been telling you guys for years, the franchise was a joke. It isn't any more, so I am good with a clean slate for both sides if he is too
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:57 am to PelicanFever
quote:
Keeping AD probably gives this franchise the best chance to win a championship. With that said, I think you have to keep him no matter what and continue to sell him and be confident that your vision will sell him over time, if in fact your goal is to give this franchise the best chance at winning a championship.
Even with no opt in or max signed, just lip service that he’ll “keep an open mind”?
That would be completely irresponsible and irrational.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:17 am to Crewz
quote:
But I think a lot of sincere words and promises can be said in that meeting that could make me feel comfortable going into the season with AD on my roster and no extension signed yet.
Griffin is no better or worse than Demps if he allows this to happen. I can’t see him being that dense.
Our fan base/coaching staff/players deserve not to be dealing with this shite and the cloud hanging over the season.
I’m not even going to get into how dumb it is from a devaluing of your asset aspect. The previous point alone is enough. Don’t start the Zion era with this will he/won’t he bullshite.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:26 am to ShamelessPel
Is Pascal Siakam's career being hurt by all this will Kawhi or won't he stuff?
Again, you guys are assuming there will be drama and a bad, manipulative Klutch, an uninterested AD with one foot out the door, etc
You guys don't give even the smallest bit of consideration to an AD situation that is closer to Kawhi or Paul George - where he is all in this season and hoping to win big and be won over by a franchise that is finally doing things right.
I am ready for this to all just play out. I just like to explore the gray a little more than most. My suggestion for all of you -- Watch More than an Athlete with an open mind and see if you come away from that thinking Klutch is this big, evil crew that wouldn't be open to AD staying in NOLA if they truly had turned stuff around.
Again, you guys are assuming there will be drama and a bad, manipulative Klutch, an uninterested AD with one foot out the door, etc
You guys don't give even the smallest bit of consideration to an AD situation that is closer to Kawhi or Paul George - where he is all in this season and hoping to win big and be won over by a franchise that is finally doing things right.
I am ready for this to all just play out. I just like to explore the gray a little more than most. My suggestion for all of you -- Watch More than an Athlete with an open mind and see if you come away from that thinking Klutch is this big, evil crew that wouldn't be open to AD staying in NOLA if they truly had turned stuff around.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:36 am to Crewz
There’s no chance that you can sell us on a year of AD without an opt in or contract.
This isn’t Kawhi or PG. Neither blew up their current team mid season and flat out said they don’t want to be here, directly or through intermediaries. Neither wore a “that’s all folks” shirt in the last game or flipped off a home fan. Neither reiterated several times through intermediaries to Woj or Shams that they don’t want to be there.
This is not the same situation in any remote way.
This isn’t Kawhi or PG. Neither blew up their current team mid season and flat out said they don’t want to be here, directly or through intermediaries. Neither wore a “that’s all folks” shirt in the last game or flipped off a home fan. Neither reiterated several times through intermediaries to Woj or Shams that they don’t want to be there.
This is not the same situation in any remote way.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:51 am to Fun Bunch
I honestly couldn't care less about swaying you guys. I am here to provide insight and balance to the conversation. I don't expect 98% of people to be open minded enough to live in the gray. But for those that are, I give them some more nuanced things to consider.
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