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re: When are we, as Americans, going to feel shame over the millions killed in our name?
Posted on 2/8/24 at 12:46 pm to RiverCityTider
Posted on 2/8/24 at 12:46 pm to RiverCityTider
My shame is directed at American citizens who are just sleeping while the destruction of our country takes place. Nobody cares.
1
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:01 pm to Dixie2023
Well, the two are connected. If you feel America is corrupt and run by crooks who hate this country, its very hard to follow them into war.
Even for those who don't give a damn about how blood soaked we have become, why on earth would you follow your enemy into battle? Why would you support fighting half way around the world when your own border is open? Why would you join such a fight when half the country considers you "irredeemable"? How can you really hate on putin when your commander n chief takes cash payments from our enemies? Why would you blather on about defending "democracy" when you don't even believe elections in this country are fair.
This is why all the neocons cry "bull shite" over our right wing "conspiracy theories". Because they are smart enough to know that only a fool would fight for a corrupt country. And they do love a good fight.
Even for those who don't give a damn about how blood soaked we have become, why on earth would you follow your enemy into battle? Why would you support fighting half way around the world when your own border is open? Why would you join such a fight when half the country considers you "irredeemable"? How can you really hate on putin when your commander n chief takes cash payments from our enemies? Why would you blather on about defending "democracy" when you don't even believe elections in this country are fair.
This is why all the neocons cry "bull shite" over our right wing "conspiracy theories". Because they are smart enough to know that only a fool would fight for a corrupt country. And they do love a good fight.
This post was edited on 2/8/24 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:03 pm to DavidTheGnome
It’s almost like people have no real understanding of civilizations and history in general. EVERY continent and country that exists in the World today was settled, conquered, or re-conquered by stronger civilizations and those have generally gone poorly for the conquered people. History is literally littered with examples from the Persians to French
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:14 pm to Liberator
quote:
Man...you ARE out there, aren't you?
HA! ThuperThumpin buying ALL of the MIC-StateDept fairy tale propaganda -- and missing not a drop.
Hey yeah...let's all ignore everything we've witnessed since...2017 - 2023. OH WAIT. You missed the memo.
Lets try to use a little bit of logic. Lets say the Russians were right. We, going against our own rules established in 1972, decided to truly restart our own bioweapons program in of all places Ukraine. This would be the most secret and potentially the most politically damaging operation the US has embarked on in quite sometime if found out. Thats not counting the risk considered in the research itself which is why we stopped doing it in the first place Given how much warning we had prior to the invasion, you think we would leave evidence behind in a soon to be active warzone?
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:20 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Lets try to use a little bit of logic.
Liberator...
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:24 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
When are we, as Americans, going to feel shame over the millions killed in our name?
I've posted about this before.
What war after the war for independence in 1776 did we HAVE to fight in?
Japan in WW2? But did we need to drop the Atomic bombs? We killed ~200,000 innocent civilians in firebombing raids and there was talk of a Japanese surrender.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:30 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
I'm talking about the twelve million people, men, women and children killed by our armed forces since the end of ww2.
Those in Power are the guilty.
The Sheep have no way of knowing the greed and inhumanity of our leaders.
Just a few days ago the "House" did the right thing and refused to fund another senseless war.
As I've grown older, I realize from the "Boxer Rebellion" China, we were making it "Safe for Missionaries to spread Christianity". Not exactly what Jesus told us to do.
No matter, the powerful had drugs to sell.
Now what did we get out of Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Thousands dead, wounded, and impaired for life.
What are we getting out of Ukraine and Israel.
Biden is giving money to both sides in that war.
Supposedly we were fighting Communism.
LBJ gave/sold wheat to bail out the Soviet Union.
Carter gave away the Panama Canal, which is controlled by China.
Castro took Cuba, aided by Liberals in New York, Kennedy was President.
Its difficult to justify sending young folks to fight Communism, meanwhile its being taught to students in our Universities.
This post was edited on 2/8/24 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I have, but far from being ashamed of it.
I havent killed anyon, so yeah, I dont know why I should feel shame
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:43 pm to RiverCityTider
Now do Lincoln, Grant and Sherman.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:46 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:Whenever I see these threads, the same question pops to mind:
When are we, as Americans, going to feel shame over the millions killed in our name?
So, are we now saying the hippies were right?
Posted on 2/8/24 at 1:47 pm to cwill
quote:
Liberator...
I know its probably hopeless but I try to engage these folks that are far down the rabbit hole a lifeline
Posted on 2/8/24 at 2:01 pm to Cuz413
There was no talk of a Japanese surrender, you factually don’t know what you are talking about. The military ran the Japanese government and the emperor had to create a separate peace deal on his own. The military refused to surrender and we would have had to invade the home islands of Japan which would have led to the deaths of millions of Japanese, Americans, and Russians. You should really educate yourself on Shinto culture and Operation Downfall because you sound foolish. The “peace” deal being circulated by some in the Japanese government was nothing more than ceasefire where Japan essentially gets to keep its conquest and suffers no real consequences.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 4:06 pm to Rip Torner
quote:
we would have had to invade the home islands of Japan
would we? why? We could have kept firebombing school kids until they surrendered. That was an option.
quote:
The “peace” deal being circulated by some in the Japanese government was nothing more than ceasefire where Japan essentially gets to keep its conquest and suffers no real consequences.
That's a nice narrative.
quote:
Shinto culture
If you're saying they weren't going to surrender and fight to the last man, why change because 2 bombs were dropped?
The narrative can't be they were committed to fighting to the death, then they just didn't.
quote:
Was There a Diplomatic Alternative? The Atomic Bombing and Japan's Surrender
Jeremy Kuzmarov and Roger Peace
October 15, 2021
Volume 19 | Issue 20 | Number 4
Article ID 5643
Abstract: This article assesses the evidence for claims that the dropping of the atomic bombs were essential for securing Japan’s surrender and offers an alternative interpretation.
Keywords: Atomic bomb, Truman, Hirohito, Eisenhower, MacArthur, Stimson, Soviet Union.
Gen. Douglas MacArthur and Emperor Hirohito, September, 1945
On September 2, 1945, V-J Day, Japanese officials aboard the USS Missouri formally surrendered to the United States, ending the Second World War.
Most Americans then and now believe that it was necessary for the U.S. to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to induce Japanese leaders to surrender. This is not what many U.S. military leaders believed at the time.
General Dwight Eisenhower, in his memoirs, recalled a visit from Secretary of War Henry Stimson in late July 1945: “I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’” Eisenhower reiterated the point years later in a Newsweek interview in 1963, saying that “the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”1
In fact, seven out of eight top U.S. military commanders believed that it was unnecessary to use atomic bombs against Japan from a military-strategic vantage point, including Admirals Chester Nimitz, Ernest King, William Halsey, and William Leahy, and Generals Henry Arnold and Douglas MacArthur.2 According to Air Force historian Daniel Haulman, even General Curtis LeMay, the architect of the air war against Japan, believed “the new weapons were unnecessary, because his bombers were already destroying the Japanese cities.”3
LINK
But nah, right? We HAD to nuke them. That line has been touted by the same people that tell us that the War for Southern Independence (Civil War) was only over the South wanting to perpetuate the institution of slavery.
Also, masking up saves lives and the *vaccine is safe and effective
This country has been run by tyrants and empire visionaries since 1861 and will kill anyone who gets in their way.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 4:11 pm to RiverCityTider
Upvote. I understand you and in a broad philosophical sense I’m right there with you.. It’s just a matter of degree.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 5:19 pm to Rip Torner
Well, our gov is allowing us to be conquered by foreigners who bring nothing with them and no telling how many terrorists have made it through. It opened the door. So, there’s that.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 5:25 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Whenever I see these threads, the same question pops to mind:
So, are we now saying the hippies were right?
No shite. For being "America First" they seem to have created a sport on shitting on all things American. And are now super concerned about protecting every life to the point they feel a country should just roll over and be invaded rather than having people die.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 6:11 pm to Liberator
quote:
The Truth:
These wars were fought is to enrich the few, The Controllers / Ruling Class / Mercenary Industrialists / Int'l Banksters.
You're one of these people here who believes that the government can control the weather, aren't you?
Posted on 2/8/24 at 6:14 pm to Cuz413
You are a human cartoon and really have no idea what you are talking about. Oh man, the abstract from a random book settles it. You do realize the Soviets were going to invade Japan’s northern islands had the war continued on? You do also realize that the US bombed Tokyo after the second strike on Nagasaki and they still refused to surrender? Lol it’s always humorous when people try to pretend the war would have just magically ended with an enemy that convinced thousands of civilians to commit suicide on the island of Okinawa and slaughtered millions of Chinese. The Japanese were actively arming and training millions of women, children, and elderly Japanese citizens on the home islands. That was probably just for show, right? I am sure you would have gladly sacrificed your father or grandfather to assuage some weird guilt you feel for an enemy that was as brutal as the Nazis. Emperor worship and the Shinto code of dishonor in surrender was probably just an old wives tale, right?
Posted on 2/8/24 at 8:15 pm to Rip Torner
We live in a country that had no issues with the deaths of almost 1,000,000 of its own people just to preserve "The Union" and gladly frick over the time and wealth of citizens today to enrich themselves and extend their power.
You think they didn't see the opportunity to crush the Japanese and flex on the fricking world with their new toys?
Grow the frick up.
You think they didn't see the opportunity to crush the Japanese and flex on the fricking world with their new toys?
Grow the frick up.
Posted on 2/8/24 at 8:16 pm to Rip Torner
quote:
Emperor worship and the Shinto code of dishonor in surrender was probably just an old wives tale, right?
Yet they gave up. Sounds like you have swallowed the propaganda
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