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Professional non-compete clauses
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:24 am
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:24 am
Anybody ever challenge or violate their non-compete with their company?
Everyone talks about their jobs a lot. I just thought of a situation a little over 20 years ago when I was working in BR.
We had a female employee who left us, and never made any secret about her intention to violate her non-compete. It was pretty clear and straightforward language in her contract. We were initially kind of up in arms about it. We were gonna show her not to mess with us. Our attorneys, however, advised us not to pursue the matter. Think of how it would look, they said, our corporation suing to prevent a single mother from pursuing her profession and make a living in her city of residence. They told us it would cost a lot of money to prosecute, she would whip up sympathy and public opinion on her side, and we might end up winning, but maybe not. They advised us it just wasn't worth it.
So we let it go and did not pursue, and she left us one day and the next day showed up in the same place working for a competitor. Some of our people would talk to her and say hi, and some resented the hell out of her.
I didn't particularly care; we got along well and she was kind of hot and I didn't see where it ever really hurt us very much. And I was starting to think about leaving myself. We did have a one or two others do the same thing, and then the situation kind of stabilized and everybody moved on.
What's your non-compete story? Conventional wisdom from most people I know (mostly non-attorneys) are that non-competes are very difficult to enforce these days. This was my only experience.
Everyone talks about their jobs a lot. I just thought of a situation a little over 20 years ago when I was working in BR.
We had a female employee who left us, and never made any secret about her intention to violate her non-compete. It was pretty clear and straightforward language in her contract. We were initially kind of up in arms about it. We were gonna show her not to mess with us. Our attorneys, however, advised us not to pursue the matter. Think of how it would look, they said, our corporation suing to prevent a single mother from pursuing her profession and make a living in her city of residence. They told us it would cost a lot of money to prosecute, she would whip up sympathy and public opinion on her side, and we might end up winning, but maybe not. They advised us it just wasn't worth it.
So we let it go and did not pursue, and she left us one day and the next day showed up in the same place working for a competitor. Some of our people would talk to her and say hi, and some resented the hell out of her.
I didn't particularly care; we got along well and she was kind of hot and I didn't see where it ever really hurt us very much. And I was starting to think about leaving myself. We did have a one or two others do the same thing, and then the situation kind of stabilized and everybody moved on.
What's your non-compete story? Conventional wisdom from most people I know (mostly non-attorneys) are that non-competes are very difficult to enforce these days. This was my only experience.
43
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:26 am to GasMan
I had a reply, but it couldn't compete with yours 
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:28 am to GasMan
Contracts are made to be broken.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:29 am to GasMan
If you try to enforce one, you better be trying to protect something more than just competition.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:29 am to GasMan
Can employees demand extra pay for these clauses?
Seems like if they are preventing employees from opportunity, they should provide much extra.
Seems like if they are preventing employees from opportunity, they should provide much extra.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:29 am to GasMan
I broke one and received two cease and desist letters from the old employer. Then the new employer fired one back basically telling them to frick off, it was glorious. They don't work in most states, you have the right to work. In my case, I had no intentions of going after old customers.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 6:31 am
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:30 am to GasMan
From my understanding, they aren't enforceable, at least in Louisiana. A company can protect its data, which is protectable, but a former company cannot prevent a person from earning a living.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:39 am to GasMan
Everyone spooges in their pants at the thought of playing Perry Mason until he really has to.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 7:52 am
Posted on 1/4/24 at 6:43 am to GasMan
We are a sales organization and know that non-competes are pretty unenforceable.
We just a have a document you sign saying where you won’t take any documentation about our CRM or download it with you as you go and have a gentleman’s agreement about not contacting customers for 6 months if headed to a competitor.
Hasn’t been an issue so far, but we’re a smal network sales company and 60% of the company are related. Most everybody who has left or been fired didn’t stay in the field.
I’m a sales engineer so me leaving would probably be the only thing that triggered something like this.
We just a have a document you sign saying where you won’t take any documentation about our CRM or download it with you as you go and have a gentleman’s agreement about not contacting customers for 6 months if headed to a competitor.
Hasn’t been an issue so far, but we’re a smal network sales company and 60% of the company are related. Most everybody who has left or been fired didn’t stay in the field.
I’m a sales engineer so me leaving would probably be the only thing that triggered something like this.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 7:03 am to GasMan
I have a friend that has her own pediatric office, she hired another pediatrician, signed non-compete with stipulations surrounding mile radius. The employee left, took job that violated clause radius and case is now in litigation.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 7:27 am to GasMan
I guess it depends on the field and location but I’ve always wondered how your old employer knows where you’re moving to? Do you tell them? I could change jobs tomorrow and my current company would have zero clue where I was working.
We have a non-compete but it’s not specific enough to be relevant in the event that I change companies. And how it’s written really only targets one of our competitors.
We have a non-compete but it’s not specific enough to be relevant in the event that I change companies. And how it’s written really only targets one of our competitors.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 7:30 am to GasMan
quote:
Some of our people would talk to her and say hi, and some resented the hell out of her.
I don't see how/why anyone else but the owner of the company would care about this.. Imagine being so wrapped up in your head about work that you're mad someone went and worked for another company, like you'd rather them be unemployed than work for someone else. Seems rather silly. I love my job, but I couldn't care less if a coworker went and worked for a competitor- if they are bettering their life, then good for them
Posted on 1/4/24 at 7:35 am to GasMan
If you’re good at what you do and are approached by another employer, ask that they buy out your contract or indemnify you if your former employer goes after you for violating the agreement.
I redlined one that was dropped on me a year into the job. They just threw up their hands and said “Nevermind, don’t sign”.
I redlined one that was dropped on me a year into the job. They just threw up their hands and said “Nevermind, don’t sign”.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 7:40 am to GasMan
My non-comp lists all parishes individually and it is enforceable in LA. It also list types of work I'm excluded from doing in those areas.
It's just most juries in our state side with David rather than Goliath. That's why mine says we go to court in DE where the parent Co is registered. I know I'm walking away within the next 10 yrs and I'm laying ground work now to make it difficult to prove that I would be breaking the one-yr non-comp when I keep working.
It's just most juries in our state side with David rather than Goliath. That's why mine says we go to court in DE where the parent Co is registered. I know I'm walking away within the next 10 yrs and I'm laying ground work now to make it difficult to prove that I would be breaking the one-yr non-comp when I keep working.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 7:43 am to GasMan
Depends on the scope and duration. This is purely anecdotal from prior experience.
Trying to prevent somebody from working in your industry in a geographic area probably won’t hold as you’re preventing them from making a living. It’s a “non compete” not a “non existence” agreement.
However, preventing them from soliciting business from their former or other company clients for 12 months is more enforceable. In reality, these usually end up in some type of legal settlement and most clients don’t want to get hauled int a legal matter. We’ve had situations where we’ve informed clients that ex-employee is under a non compete and they would shy away from working with them because of this. Who wants to do business with someone that openly breaks an agreement?
The reality is that the employee should live up to what they signed and if the company can’t hold on to their clients after 12 months that’s their problem.
ETA: also, if you have to sign it as part of your employment agreement you received “consideration” for it and it’s more enforceable. If they force it in you after employment with no consideration, less so.
Trying to prevent somebody from working in your industry in a geographic area probably won’t hold as you’re preventing them from making a living. It’s a “non compete” not a “non existence” agreement.
However, preventing them from soliciting business from their former or other company clients for 12 months is more enforceable. In reality, these usually end up in some type of legal settlement and most clients don’t want to get hauled int a legal matter. We’ve had situations where we’ve informed clients that ex-employee is under a non compete and they would shy away from working with them because of this. Who wants to do business with someone that openly breaks an agreement?
The reality is that the employee should live up to what they signed and if the company can’t hold on to their clients after 12 months that’s their problem.
ETA: also, if you have to sign it as part of your employment agreement you received “consideration” for it and it’s more enforceable. If they force it in you after employment with no consideration, less so.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 7:47 am
Posted on 1/4/24 at 8:02 am to GasMan
Non-compete enforceability varies by state, but employment contracts likely have an IP theft clause as well.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 8:11 am to GasMan
You are being fleeced by your lawyers they aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
Posted on 1/4/24 at 8:13 am to GasMan
I've worked for companies that required signing non-compete and non-recruit clauses. I've seen both obviously violated on multiple occasions but nothing ever pursued. They felt more like deterrents than anything else.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 8:14 am
Posted on 1/4/24 at 8:13 am to GasMan
They are enforceable in Louisiana but they have to be specific and reasonable in the context of the industry. You can't, for example, restrict a Metairie pediatrician from practicing in Monroe when you don't have an office in Monroe. You can't restrict the guy who answers the phones and quotes prices for parts all day long from leaving to go to a competitor for an outside sales job even in the same parish and the same field, because they are different jobs. (I litigated that one and won.)
Posted on 1/4/24 at 8:44 am to GasMan
I’m breaking mine this week actually. I’ve spoken to two employment attorneys who have educated me tremendously and have decided I’m good to go.
These agreements must be written in an outrageously specific manner in order to hold up in Louisiana and mine is all over the place with contradicting statements, over broad language, and a restricted territory that isn’t anywhere near specific enough. On top of all of that, I signed it before my first day of employment which also calls into question the validity of the contract.
You can’t just say the employee is prohibited from working in “similar business or having similar responsibilities”. You have to specify what type of business they’re prohibited from working in and you have to specify what municipalities the employee can’t work in. Saying “similar business anywhere where the company has or previously had customers in any state of the United States of America” is too broad. Louisiana requires it to state every single parish and every single state the employee is prohibited from working.
They can restrict your right to work but they have to do it in a very specific manner in order to be enforceable.
These agreements must be written in an outrageously specific manner in order to hold up in Louisiana and mine is all over the place with contradicting statements, over broad language, and a restricted territory that isn’t anywhere near specific enough. On top of all of that, I signed it before my first day of employment which also calls into question the validity of the contract.
You can’t just say the employee is prohibited from working in “similar business or having similar responsibilities”. You have to specify what type of business they’re prohibited from working in and you have to specify what municipalities the employee can’t work in. Saying “similar business anywhere where the company has or previously had customers in any state of the United States of America” is too broad. Louisiana requires it to state every single parish and every single state the employee is prohibited from working.
They can restrict your right to work but they have to do it in a very specific manner in order to be enforceable.
This post was edited on 1/4/24 at 8:46 am
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