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re: Famed atheist and biologist calls the idea of more than two genders “utter nonsense”
Posted on 3/23/23 at 8:59 am to AwgustaDawg
Posted on 3/23/23 at 8:59 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Gender, on the other hand, has no basis in biology or science. It is, in its entirety, based on cultural and societal expectations based on the biological fact but in no way dependent on that fact
That's fine. If a man wants to be and be treated like a "cultural woman," whatever he thinks that means, then so he it. But when a topic comes up in which biology is a key variable, social gender identity should be totally disregarded. Your social gender has nothing to do with correct bathroom use, proper medical care, physical competition, etc. Just like if a person who thinks they're a dog bites you, you don't call animal control to have them put down because we've moved from the random fantasyland of cultural identity and into the real life biological discussion. It's also why doctors generally don't enable patients with apotemnophilia (body integrity identity disorder) by amputating healthy limbs. Nobody is stopping them from acting like an amputee and pretending to share that experience, but when it gets to the point of wanting physical intervention, it's time to check up stairs.
Also, everyone feels like what they think the other gender feels like sometimes. The range of human emotion and feelings isn't based on gender or even sex, but on humanity. We all experience the same emotions and feelings, the difference is in the interpretation and behavioral response to the feelings. Some of those responses are based on brain chemistry, some are learned through society/culture, and some are based on biology. The chemical responses are unique to the individual. Social responses can be anything, and it's why there are what society perceived as feminine men and masculine women. The biological responses are based on your biological sex and cannot be replicated through transition.
Given human nature, it's monsterous to allow children, through hormonal and physical intervention, to go through transition. Feelings are dynamic and change over time, especially in developing young people. It's cruel to make permanent changes to the body based on the temporary and unrefined feelings of a developing person.
This post was edited on 3/23/23 at 9:04 am
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Posted on 3/23/23 at 9:02 am to pelicanpride
quote:
We used to call these people tomboys. I was one of those growing up. I still am, really. The thing about the word tomboy is that it is a title given to a GIRL. Even though a tomboy might be into stereotypical boy stuff, it’s still understood that she is a girl. Are today’s tomboys just calling themselves boys? If so, that’s incredibly regressive and a narrowing of what a woman is allowed to be. We used to be allowed to be into sports, hate shopping, and still be considered women.
I think they are being told by many outside influences that they must either be gay or trans. These people have created a world where it's not ok for a girl to be interested in sports or the outdoors or building things...she must be trans or gay. Same with boys...they can't like dance or art or fashion...they must be gay or trans. There are going to be a lot of messed up adults in 10 or so years when they figure out they were really just interested in some stuff the other sex likes, rather than actually wanting to be the other sex.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 9:26 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Gender, on the other hand, has no basis in biology or science.
Correct. This is why people have enjoyed going to funny drag queen brunches in New Orleans for eons. This is why nobody is surprised when a lesbian may dress (culturally) like a man and wear short hair. No big deal. Literally nobody cares.
The big change is now this group is trying to combine culture and biology/science into saying that a trans woman IS a woman and vice versa. If it's just cultural, why the hormone changes? Why the surgeries? Why the NEED to use another restroom if it doesn't really mean anything and it's no big deal?
And to your point about restrooms, you know what you're saying is absurd. The point is to separate boy parts and girl parts because being in a public room with your pants down can make some people uncomfortable and others feel a little too excited. Males and females don't need to be in this situation together, for obvious reasons.
You're being purposefully obtuse.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 9:36 am to Bronc
quote:
sex they were assigned at birth
Can this phrase please die a quick and painful death? That is all.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 9:58 am to AwgustaDawg
Separating gender and sex may not be helpful as you think, but we can’t even discuss it because of ideology. Heres a podcast about it with a scientist, behavioral therapist, and Buck Angel (a well known self proclaimed transsexual that says it’s a mental disorder) LINK
Posted on 3/23/23 at 10:38 am to UGATiger26
quote:
You never addressed the fact that you were dead wrong about animal names in Latin-based languages being universally masculine. I think you just gave me a downvote. If you can't get simple shite like that correct, then why should we believe anything else you have to say on this matter, which is exponentially more abstract?
Of course, I know you'll try to weasel your way out of that one too with your "almost" qualifier.
If I downvoted you I don't remember it...I rarely down or upvote anything.
As far as the qualifier I used it was slightly important...universal and almost universal are not synonymous. The post you are referring to is the reason I used that qualifier...very few things in life are absolute....
Posted on 3/23/23 at 10:50 am to LaLadyinTx
quote:
I think they are being told by many outside influences that they must either be gay or trans. These people have created a world where it's not ok for a girl to be interested in sports or the outdoors or building things...she must be trans or gay. Same with boys...they can't like dance or art or fashion...they must be gay or trans. There are going to be a lot of messed up adults in 10 or so years when they figure out they were really just interested in some stuff the other sex likes, rather than actually wanting to be the other sex.
yeah, it’s a real big problem when teachers aren’t allowed to inform parents of this type of behavior by law.
then you have extremely vocal LBTQXYZ+ teachers forcing their beliefs onto young children to justify their own mental disorders.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 10:55 am to HouseMom
quote:
The big change is now this group is trying to combine culture and biology/science into saying that a trans woman IS a woman and vice versa. If it's just cultural, why the hormone changes? Why the surgeries? Why the NEED to use another restroom if it doesn't really mean anything and it's no big deal?
The people who make the claim that the gender they identify as is what makes them either male or female or simply wrong, whether it is a transman who is female or a man who is male. If you a biological male who states that this also means your gender is male your as mistaken as a trans woman who says her gender is what makes her a biological female. We all identify our gender but we do not choose our biological sex.
I can't speak as to why someone would want or need to physically transition so their biological sex and the gender they identify as are in sync. I suspect there is a lot of mental health issues involved....they may be outright insane or they may actually be suffering and transitioning physically with hormones and surgery may make them more comfortable in their own body. It really is not any of my business. It is a personal issue between the individual and their doctors. I don't understand it but the things I don't understand are far greater than those I do like all honest people.
As far as the restroom is concerned given that a restroom can not be biologically male or female and the only thing that provides it a gender is the sign on the door. If there were only 2 genders and bathrooms had a biological sex there would be no unisex bathrooms. There are...a heaping pile of them.
So the bathroom issue is based on the feels. I get it. I don't want anyone in the bathroom with me while I do my business...and try to avoid public restrooms for this reason when practical. I can understand being uncomfortable....that is exactly why trans people want to use the restroom for the gender they identify with, if you listen to their statements. As far as someone getting excited is there any data to suggest trans people are more likely, per capita, to become excited in a public restroom? Isn't it possible that a homosexual could also be bent that way, a bi sexual and even a heterosexual? Folks have all manner of kinks...that one is particularly wierd to me but it ain't up to me. If this is a major concern though an individual should avoid public restrooms because there ain't no telling who is in there getting all worked up, apparently. I don't know why it would be less troubling if they happen to share the same biology....its weird, in my opinion, no matter what.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:02 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:It's sex, period.
Gender, on the other hand, has no basis in biology or science
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:05 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
I can understand being uncomfortable....that is exactly why trans people want to use the restroom for the gender they identify with, if you listen to their statements.
What about the rest of the population who don't want to share a restroom with people playing dressup?
That's pretty damn selfish for one person to expect total accommodation.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:06 am to AlxTgr
quote:
It's sex, period.
Except it ain't. If it were the ladies restroom or the ladies fitting room or even the ladies wear section of walmart would have some biological marker which would indicate its sex. They do not anymore than having a penis makes a male person a man. There is far more to being a man than having a penis.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:07 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
As far as the qualifier I used it was slightly important...universal and almost universal are not synonymous. The post you are referring to is the reason I used that qualifier...very few things in life are absolute....
Wow, saw that response coming from a mile away too.
Translation: "I'm full of shite, and got called out, so even though my claim that animal names in Latin-based languages are almost universally masculine has fallen apart on cursory inspection, I'm going to claim victory because I said 'almost universal' and not just 'universal'"
Let's play a game and take this to it's logical conclusion, sophist. What % threshold of animal names being masculine would it take for your claim of "almost universal" to be accurate? I've got time...hell, let's run the whole gamut and see if you're right.
ETA: For kicks, I just reviewed 125 Italian animal names at random on a flashcard website. Verdict: 76 masculine, 49 feminine.
Being the sophist you are, I'm sure you'll try to claim that ratio proves "almost universal masculinity"
One more time for the record...you've proven that you will attempt to lie and obfuscate simple matters like these, so whatever else you say should be considered dubious.
This post was edited on 3/23/23 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:08 am to Rust Cohle
quote:
Separating gender and sex may not be helpful as you think, but we can’t even discuss it because of ideology. Heres a podcast about it with a scientist, behavioral therapist, and Buck Angel (a well known self proclaimed transsexual that says it’s a mental disorder) LINK
Never claimed it was helpful only that the separation exists, which it categorically and undeniably does. I am certain that life would be far less chaotic if everything was cut and dried with no variance at all. It would be boring as hell but it would be more ordered....
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:09 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
There is far more to being a man than having a penis.
I’m looking forward to the Chinese invasion, me.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:11 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
mistake. Biological sex is undeniable where gender is not
Then gender doesn’t exist at all. If you have a male private you’re a man. Do you think other animals besides humans identify as something other than their biological makeup?
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:16 am to lsudave1
quote:
Then gender doesn’t exist at all.
Its kind of like Brony or Juggalo.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:27 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What about the rest of the population who don't want to share a restroom with people playing dressup?
That's pretty damn selfish for one person to expect total accommodation.
I don't know that many people actually care one way or another about someone playing dressup in the restroom.
The question that jumps to mind immediately is how are you going to know they are playing dress up??? What kind of weird shite are y'all doing in a restroom where you can determine a person's biological sex who, from all outward appearances, is the appropriate gender for the bathroom they are in. They may be uglier than hell but that ain't no reason to ban them from the appropriate restroom. The only plausible explanation for folks being this concerned over someone who appears to be one sex, even ugly folks who appear to be one sex aligned with the appropriate bathroom is that they are somehow sneaking a peek at the other person's plumbing. That is some sick, twisted shite.
Even more twisted is that fact that everyone I ever heard who made this argument about the bathroom will also support the idea that a person ought to use the bathroom provided for the gender they were assigned at birth. This is to protect the children, of course. The question is, which is more likely to arouse the curiosity of a child than seeing a man in a dress pissing at a urinal or a woman in overalls and a plaid shirt sitting down to piss in a stall? It is obvious y'all aint ever taken a child to a public restroom or you would know damn well whats going to happen the first time a 5 year old sees a man in a dress pissing at a urinal. Its going to be less noticeable than that same man standing up to piss in a stall in the ladies room. Y'all aint thought this one through at all.....
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:31 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
I don't know that many people actually care one way or another about someone playing dressup in the restroom.
There are far more people who are uncomfortable with their kids in those rooms than there are men who play dress up.
I totally understand there are a very tiny percentage of the population who really does have gender dysphoria. Those people have existed forever and somehow we've managed.
The new batch of faddish trannies are by choice, and don't get to have their own way just because they decide so.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:34 am to lsudave1
quote:
Then gender doesn’t exist at all. If you have a male private you’re a man. Do you think other animals besides humans identify as something other than their biological makeup?
I have NEVER heard of any animal other than man who had any sex specific traits that were not biological. Man is the only animal I am aware of who, for instance, dresses its babies (at all) in pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Some animals don't bother with this but will eat their babies. Humans have all manner of traits that indicate gender that are not based on biological traits. Clothes, hair styles, speach patterns...the list is large. Animals have NONE of this that I am aware of. Man is an animal and shares some traits with animals and some human traits are unique to man. Gender is a good example....
Posted on 3/23/23 at 11:38 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There are far more people who are uncomfortable with their kids in those rooms than there are men who play dress up.
I get that and accept as a bona fide fact. It still begs the question how do these concerned parents know? What are they doing in those restrooms that notifies them there is a trans person present???? I seriously think that this may be the actual problem...what the hell are these parents doing in the bathroom, with their kid or without???? That is some seriously bizarre shite...far more bizarre and far more prevalent, apparently, than a man in a dress in the ladies room. I suspect some mental health issues going on for these people who know a tranny is in the bathroom with them......
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