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14th Amendment applies to presidents, "expert" argues at Trump’s Colorado trial

Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:33 pm
Posted by jatilen
Member since May 2020
13608 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:33 pm
quote:

Attorneys called on a 14th Amendment expert in the hearing’s third day, Indiana University law professor Gerard Magliocca, to lay out exactly how to define “insurrection” and how it should apply to presidents.

What insurrection means is at the center of the case, as Trump campaign attorneys argue that the 14th Amendment’s third section does not apply to Trump both because his actions don’t fit the term “insurrection” and because the clause can’t apply to presidents due to specific readings of the amendment.

The plaintiff’s lead attorney, Eric Olson, has argued the Colorado case has four basic components: Trump took an oath as an officer of the U.S., the Capitol attack was an insurrection, Trump engaged in that insurrection and Colorado’s secretary of state can be ordered by the court to keep him off the state’s ballot because of it.

Magliocca’s expert testimony Wednesday was intended to build the first two pillars of the case’s argument. Separate expert testimony Tuesday focused on the third pillar, regarding Trump’s involvement with right-wing extremist groups.

Magliocca explained that the 14th Amendment’s third section was enacted after the Civil War as a way to keep Confederate-supporting politicians out of office unless they were given amnesty by Congress.

But he was clear that the section was not intended to only fit the Civil War, and that it could also apply to future “insurrections.”

Magliocca defined an insurrection, using a number of historical legal citations, as “any public use of force or threat of force, by a group of people to hinder or prevent the execution of the law.”

The plaintiff’s attorneys are expected to argue that the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol fits that definition, and separately, that Trump’s actions on and before the attack fall under giving “aid or comfort” to those who participated in it.

LINK

The "expert":
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 2:34 pm
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
109063 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:35 pm to
He flew in for the hearing, and boy were his ears tired.
Posted by Tiger985
Member since Nov 2006
7669 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:36 pm to
The USSC has already ruled on this "officer" business.

The President is not an "officer". People do not vote for officers.

Even if you believe it was an insurrection (it wasn't), the 14th amendment cannot be used against Trump.

Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
103784 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:36 pm to
What are his qualifications? He blew someone in a Holiday Inn Express last night?
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
37045 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:37 pm to
quote:

the Colorado case has four basic components: Trump took an oath as an officer of the U.S., the Capitol attack was an insurrection, Trump engaged in that insurrection and Colorado’s secretary of state can be ordered by the court to keep him off the state’s ballot because of it.

The portions in bold have not been established as a matter of fact or law.

Nothing is triggered with respect to the 14th Amendment until a court determines that the protests in fact and as a matter of law constitute an insurrection, and that Donald Trump participated in it.+

Everything else is wish-casting
Posted by lsuguy84
Madisonville
Member since Feb 2009
27309 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:37 pm to
That’s how I picture FaggieHank
Posted by Heyes
Baton. Rouge
Member since Jul 2013
809 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:38 pm to
That guy looks like a cab going down the street with the doors open
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
37045 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

e USSC has already ruled on this "officer" business.

The President is not an "officer". People do not vote for officers.

Even if you believe it was an insurrection (it wasn't), the 14th amendment cannot be used against Trump.

Yep. Ejusdem generis. The text of the amendment very plainly excludes POTUS. Every other time in the Constitution that POTUS was contemplated, POTUS was named. Nowhere else in the document is POTUS referred to or reduced to "an officer"
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 3:47 pm
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
129986 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:40 pm to
Trump has so many trials I didn't even know a Colorado trial existed, I don't think
Posted by Goonie02
Member since Dec 2019
2797 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

Trump has so many trials I didn't even know a Colorado trial existed, I don't think

It is called lawfare. favorite tactic popularized by the Bolsheviks. later on perfected by the Stasi of the Soviet East Germany.

American state law enforcement adopted Soviet tactics to prosecute suspected collaborators. Progressive/Commies really do love using the "justice system" to take out political dissidents.

a tale as old as time itself.
Posted by SloppyFrog
Ponchatoula
Member since Dec 2022
325 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:45 pm to
John Fetterboy
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
62868 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

Trump has so many trials I didn't even know a Colorado trial existed, I don't think


They are trying real hard to push him over that 60% threshold and ensure he’s the nominee.

Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
82151 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 2:58 pm to
It does not apply.

Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42524 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:11 pm to
A Martian?
Posted by Dday63
Member since Sep 2014
2393 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

Nothing is triggered with respect to the 14th Amendment until a court determines that the protests in fact and as a matter of law constitute an insurrection, and that Donald Trump participated in it.+



What do you think this trial is about?
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
37045 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

What do you think this trial is about?

Getting a liberal judge in Colorado to call it an insurrection so that the 10th Circuit can call him an idiot, so that it can be taken up to SCOTUS and 1,000,000 liberal-oriented PAC's can file amicus briefs which can be cited on MSNBC by Hakeem Jeffries.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 3:37 pm
Posted by TDTOM
Member since Jan 2021
25887 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:47 pm to
I am not a lawyer, but am I understanding what y'all saying correctly? The 14th uses the term officer and not POTUS. The USSC has already ruled that the POTUS is not an officer. Therefore, the 14th does not apply. If so, what are we doing here?
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
19042 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:47 pm to
Maybe this expert should provide the insurrection charges, conviction of Trump?
Posted by LoneStar23
USA
Member since Aug 2019
5810 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:49 pm to
No wonder he is an expert, dudes ears can hear from 1776
Posted by BlackAdam
Member since Jan 2016
7160 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 3:54 pm to
Fair enough. The 14th applies to Presidents. But J6 wasn't an insurrection. Even Joe Biden agrees. He says you need tanks and nukes to overthrow the government.
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