- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Michael Bradley's performance versus Germany compared to France's midfielders
Posted on 7/8/14 at 12:55 am to LuckyTiger
Posted on 7/8/14 at 12:55 am to LuckyTiger
The people who are complaining about MB's poor performance clearly either having way higher expectations out of the guy, or don't know what they are watching..the guy made some mistakes (some more glaring than others)..just part of the game breh 
0
Posted on 7/8/14 at 12:58 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
I don't mean to single you out because you are just one of many. That being said, there are a lot of people saying stuff like this over and over; if someone doesn't agree with you or has a different opinion then he/she needs to learn more about soccer. It's condescending and frankly tiresome by this point.
Ironically, this paragraph is fairly condescending.
quote:
None of you are experts.
I guarantee you that the people going against kashonly in this thread have watched a hell of a lot more soccer than him.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 1:13 am to hendersonshands
I am admittedly a casual soccer fan.
I was also,admittedly left unimpressed with MB in the WC. I understand he was playing out of position, but it though he/we were wakeful with keeping position while other teams seemed to have no difficulty keeping the ball for long periods of time.
So can someone explain to me (admittedly ignorant to a lot of the deeper aspects of the sport) why we were terrible with keeping position and why we often struggled to pressure defenses aside from a quick counter attack?
Also one thing that I noticed is that when we had the ball defenders would aggressively attack the ball often leading to a loss of position while we on the other hand seemed to give ground/space and condense our defense around the box.
A couple questions about this:
1) I would assume that it was a planned strategy for our defenses to not aggressively challenge the ball around the midfield. Did we respect the other team's ability to get past our defender and get upfield, thus creating more opportunities or do we lack players who can defend the ball aggressively?
2) I guess the same question in reverse. We never seemed to take advantage of aggressive defending around the midfield. We seemed to "panic" more when we were challenged and looked to a person to pass the ball to. I do not remember many, if any, times when our player would make a quick move and get past the defender while moving up field.
So I guess my question is do we lack players with the skill set to attack and defend aggressively or is it more scheme related?
I was also,admittedly left unimpressed with MB in the WC. I understand he was playing out of position, but it though he/we were wakeful with keeping position while other teams seemed to have no difficulty keeping the ball for long periods of time.
So can someone explain to me (admittedly ignorant to a lot of the deeper aspects of the sport) why we were terrible with keeping position and why we often struggled to pressure defenses aside from a quick counter attack?
Also one thing that I noticed is that when we had the ball defenders would aggressively attack the ball often leading to a loss of position while we on the other hand seemed to give ground/space and condense our defense around the box.
A couple questions about this:
1) I would assume that it was a planned strategy for our defenses to not aggressively challenge the ball around the midfield. Did we respect the other team's ability to get past our defender and get upfield, thus creating more opportunities or do we lack players who can defend the ball aggressively?
2) I guess the same question in reverse. We never seemed to take advantage of aggressive defending around the midfield. We seemed to "panic" more when we were challenged and looked to a person to pass the ball to. I do not remember many, if any, times when our player would make a quick move and get past the defender while moving up field.
So I guess my question is do we lack players with the skill set to attack and defend aggressively or is it more scheme related?
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 1:25 am
Posted on 7/8/14 at 1:19 am to Broski
quote:
people going against Kashonly in this thread have watched a hell of a lot more soccer than HE.
I do post links and examples of my issues with MB...it's not just all talk.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 1:37 am to Seeker
quote:
1) I would assume that it was a planned strategy for our defenses to not aggressively challenge the ball around the midfield. Did we respect the other team's ability to get past our defender and get upfield, thus creating more opportunities or do we lack players who can defend the ball aggressively?
You would be correct on that the low pressure defense was the plan. We do have some good defenders, but we were set up to try and hide weaknesses of others by getting as many men behind the ball as possible in most cases. Simply, to keep individuals from looking stupid, we played it "safe" defensively.
quote:
2) I guess the same question in reverse. We never seemed to take advantage of aggressive defending around the midfield. We seemed to "panic" more when we were challenged and looked to a person to pass the ball to. I do not remember many, if any, times when our player would make a quick move and get past the defender while moving up field.
I'm not sure panic is the right term for how the USMNT acted on the ball. We just do not have guys who play a style where they use individual skill to take a defender on 1v1. We prefer to try and move the ball around to find gaps with passing. Sadly, With Altidore out, Dempsey had to deputize in that role. Clint is normally the one who plays just beneath Jozy to open up and find spaces for other players and himself. That let Bradley, even while playing CAM, to play deeper where he prefers. Clint also does not possess the "target man" skill-set that Jozy does, so our offensive strategy had to change drastically while forcing players into uncomfortable roles.
quote:
So I guess my question is do we lack players with the skill set to attack and defend aggressively or is it more scheme related?
In case it wasn't quite clear before, the answer is both. We use a safer "scheme" because we were being "safe" defensively and offensively we do not have the style of players that attack "aggressively". Clear enough?
Posted on 7/8/14 at 1:45 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
That being said, there are a lot of people saying stuff like this over and over; if someone doesn't agree with you or has a different opinion then he/she needs to learn more about soccer. It's condescending and frankly tiresome by this point.
I think the argument is used condescendingly sometimes, but it is still a fair argument. Some people on here really do exhibit a lack of understanding as to what is happening on the field. Once they ignore a certain amount of explanation about why things happen, the fact that they are ignorant (not an insult, just means education is needed) to the intricacies of the game is all that is left. Does it get old to see? Sure, I wish we lived in a world where we all understood everything, but sadly, we don't. It is no more tiresome than people being intentionally dense to troll or those who just want to find someone to railroad, like Bradley, especially just because it's popular to say so.
quote:
None of you are experts.
Fair enough point. However, if an undergrad math major is debating calculus with a high school math student, I'd still bet on the undergrad to be right. Odds are that the high schooler has a very basic understanding of calculus while the undergrad student has a bit more insight. The undergrad may still not have the whole picture down, but he seems more of it than the high schooler. The same goes with people new to a sport, or even just those new to a higher level of play in a sport. We all could learn something, but it's best when we discuss in a calm, logical manner. Sadly, that doesn't happen often enough.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 6:07 am to wm72
quote:
By that measure I suppose you could say "average" however Bradley being "average" out of a field that includes probably 80% of the best midfielders in the world doesn't exactly shore up your argument.
Furthermore, that he (along with maybe Fabian Johnson and Jones a bit further down though he played better) are probably the only USA field players that would rank anywhere near this highly means that he's asked to do what the world's absolute elite superstars do for their teams with a lot less quality around him.
This guy. This guy gets it.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 7:16 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:he had a pretty good game against Portugal but kind of mediocre against Belgium imo
I went back and watched the Belgium game, and Bradley, though playing a deeper role (slightly), was one of our best players. Constantly playing long switches into feet, the beautiful assist,
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 7:38 am
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:08 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
LuckyTiger
There's a difference between having an opinion and not understanding how the game is played. There is a lot about hockey that I don't get but I don't go around saying so and so should have done this.
It's not condescending for me to tell someone that if they watched more game they would understand how the game flows and why players make certain passes, take a shot from distance, take their space etc. I'm not an expert but I watch and play enough soccer to have at least a good understanding of the game.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:19 am to cwil177
quote:
This guy. This guy gets it.
No, not really. He just agreed with what I said, but says that because I'm comparing Bradley to the other players on teams in the WC, it doesn't support my argument...even though I said that said in my post that I'm only comparing him to WC teams... He's contradicting himself. I think the U.S. is past the point where we are comparing ourselves to Saudi Arabia, Canada, or other mediocre teams. It's only fair to compare ourselves to the competition in the world cup.
I also don't see the point of his second paragraph. Nobody is saying that Bradley isn't the best that we have at that position.
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 8:21 am
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:32 am to jeff5891
Bradley's shortcomings during this WC was his meh first touch and lack of final ball (until the Julian Green goal). Normally, a CDM is not called upon to provide an attacking first touch or an incisive final ball. He played more of a CM role with some attack mixed in, which isn't best-suited for his skills.
Bradley and Beckerman passed the ball well for the most part after the Ghana game and the stats don't lie. Bradley did yeoman's work for us, but had a letdown vs. Portugal at the end of the game, and was unable to connect the critical pass several times in the attacking third throughout the WC.
Good Bradley:
Work rate in all 4 games
First 94.5 minutes vs. Portugal
Distribution during Germany game
Pass to Julian Green
Poor Bradley:
Critical final ball around the 18
Total performance vs. Ghana, he was bad
Last 30 seconds vs. Portugal
Overall, 6 out 10 for the entire WC. Probably would be 6.5 if it weren't for the Portugal gaffe.
Really wish we could've seen Jozy, Cakes, and a healthy Fabs throughout the WC - it would've taken a lot of pressure off Bradley and Clint.
Bradley and Beckerman passed the ball well for the most part after the Ghana game and the stats don't lie. Bradley did yeoman's work for us, but had a letdown vs. Portugal at the end of the game, and was unable to connect the critical pass several times in the attacking third throughout the WC.
Good Bradley:
Work rate in all 4 games
First 94.5 minutes vs. Portugal
Distribution during Germany game
Pass to Julian Green
Poor Bradley:
Critical final ball around the 18
Total performance vs. Ghana, he was bad
Last 30 seconds vs. Portugal
Overall, 6 out 10 for the entire WC. Probably would be 6.5 if it weren't for the Portugal gaffe.
Really wish we could've seen Jozy, Cakes, and a healthy Fabs throughout the WC - it would've taken a lot of pressure off Bradley and Clint.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:34 am to hendersonshands
I honestly don't know why anyone is responding to Kashonly on this.
In other words, his play in the World Cup was disappointing.
Combination of too-high expectations, him really not playing great, and him having to play an unnatural position with few options, like you said.
I expect him to play his best in big games, regardless of the situation.
This grantland article has a good summation of Bradley's Cup.
the boys of summer
quote:
I'd give him a C for the tournament and I think that's where most of our players fell.
In other words, his play in the World Cup was disappointing.
Combination of too-high expectations, him really not playing great, and him having to play an unnatural position with few options, like you said.
quote:
I honestly have no idea what some of you expected Bradley to be able to accomplish in those circumstances.
I expect him to play his best in big games, regardless of the situation.
This grantland article has a good summation of Bradley's Cup.
the boys of summer
quote:
Look, Bradley wasn’t at his best during the group stage. More accurately, he did the most visible part of his job badly. In general, there was a sense that he lost the ball too often and was sloppy in possession. That is true. He also, as was increasingly cited as the tournament wore on, covered more ground than any other player at the World Cup. He also occupied an unfamiliar role, and when Jozy Altidore got hurt, he did it with an unfamiliar strike partner in Clint Dempsey.
quote:
So hopefully this game, even in defeat, kills the idea of “Michael Bradley is not good enough” before it ever has time to take root. At his best, as an attacking midfielder, Bradley will always lose the ball more than he does as a defensive mid. He’s supposed to (though, at his best, he also won’t do so in the dying moments with a lead).
Posted on 7/8/14 at 8:47 am to uway
So Bradley was playing in an unfamiliar position with an unfamiliar strike partner and didn't look as good as he does when playing his normal role with his regular strike partner. It's not surprising. He's not an attacking midfielder. Dempsey isn't a hold up striker. People who don't watch the national team but for once every four years have a hard time understanding Bradley's regular role and how he was shoehorned into a new position due to a lack of players who could actually play the attacking role. That's what makes this whole argument so frustrating for people who watch every USMNT game. Had Jozy not gone down I bet Bradley looks ten times better and a lot of these arguments never occur.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:16 am to cwil177
quote:
That's what makes this whole argument so frustrating for people who watch every USMNT game.
I'm not sure which argument you're talking about (again, if it's the Kashonly argument, it's not worth considering), but I do watch every USMNT game.
quote:
It's not surprising.
What's not surprising? That he was sloppy in possession and basically failed at being an attacking midfielder?
quote:
People who don't watch the national team but for once every four years have a hard time understanding Bradley's regular role and how he was shoehorned into a new position due to a lack of players who could actually play the attacking role.
Condescending and pretending that you and everyone else didn't think, prior to this World Cup, that Bradley could be an effective attacking midfielder for us. Hence the incessant talk pre-WC about how Jones needed to be more disciplined to free up MB to play a more attacking role. I realize there's a difference b/t a #10 and a b2b midfielder, but let's not pretend that pre-WC and especially post-Mexico friendly there wasn't a big desire from the fans to have Bradley in an attacking role.
He got that role, and he didn't deliver. There are extenuating circumstances, but he did not deliver. He could have played much better.
Oh, and there's this, from 5/1/14
quote:
I love Bradley at CAM. No ifs ands or buts about it. As evidenced by the Panama game and the Mexico friendly, if we have positionally disciplined DMs who allow Bradley the freedom to go up top, our attack becomes so much more dynamic.
And my response, after hearing the same thing over and over again re Bradley
quote:
Do we really, every time midfielders or defenders are discussed, have to hear the same things about how Jones is trash, Bradley is a blend of Pirlo and Maradona, we have zero offense unless Bradley provides it, etc etc?
Oh, and also this from the same thread and from our dear leader who later said (I think) that JK's biggest mistake was dropping Parkhurst:
quote:
The thought of Ronaldo running at Parkhurst gives me the liquid shits.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:17 am to cwil177
Let's keep making excuses for him.
I heard that he was tired from all the travel, which he didn't have to do before the WC. I also heard that he forgot to bring his favorite pre-game movie to watch, "Frozen".
I heard that he was tired from all the travel, which he didn't have to do before the WC. I also heard that he forgot to bring his favorite pre-game movie to watch, "Frozen".
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:25 am to Billy Mays
quote:the defender in me doesn't blame Bradley at all on that last goal against Portugal.
First 94.5 minutes vs. Portugal
Overall I was disappointed in how he played in the WC though.
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 9:29 am
Posted on 7/8/14 at 10:05 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
like this?
That's the play everyone is pissed at MB during the Portugal game? That is comical. Yes it wasnt a great first touch but that is not the easiest ball to trap a boot from the back that goes prbly 60+ yards. Not even considering after running 13+Km's in the hottest field in the world minus qatar. ANd it wasn't even that pour of a trap. what else you want him to do. drop it on a dime and have the 5 people around him disposses him? To me that is an errant pass.
I hadn't gone back and watched it and generally refused to listen to the chicken heads on ESPN SC. i did like world cup tonight. BUT if that is the huge MB mistake we(as a soccer dumb nation) are bitching about, i am shocked. i bet we can come up with an hour long clip of a top 10 midfielders ever making similar touches
Posted on 7/8/14 at 10:29 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
I do post links and examples of my issues with MB...it's not just all talk
You do, but you have some of the worst analysis I have ever seen. It's almost like you watched just clips and have no real knowledge of positions, player roles, or realistic expectations. There has been very very few times in any of your post that would lead me to believe you have any knowledge on this subject.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 10:32 am to FunkasaurusReb
quote:
It's almost like you watched just clips and have no real knowledge of positions, player roles, or realistic expectations. There has been very very few times in any of your post that would lead me to believe you have any knowledge on this subject.
It's clear he's just trying to learn as he goes to support his argument. He even thought MB's natural role was as an attacking mid (offensive mid, as he put it), because that's something a quick Google/Wiki search probably won't tell you.
Page 6 of 12
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News