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re: Why do churches get so worked up over gays?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:54 am to TigerChief10
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:54 am to TigerChief10
If you don’t understand the difference between drinking some Old Charter vs drinking your buddy’s sperm, you and I are never going to be able to find common ground.
1
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:55 am to Rebel
That was disgusting.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:55 am to TigerChief10
quote:
Why do churches get so worked up over gays
Is kinda weird seeing as how King David was bi-sexual and they talk about his lover Jonathon.
11 Samuel 1:26 David loved Jonathon more than women.
Also homosexuality is as much as a sin as is eating shrimp and wearing a cotton/polyester blended shirt.
This post was edited on 2/17/20 at 11:57 am
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:56 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
It's hard for me to believe that God is ok with a pastor using God's name to earn millions of dollars and own jets, but God isn't ok with a gay priest.
But you're creating a dichotomy that doesn't really exist. You're not going to find a lot of pastors who think God is ok with what Olsteen does. There is no generalized Christian acceptance of prosperity gospel.
If you're gay and a Christian, you face a reality that all of us face: It's not about us. It's harder for gay people, because while our familial lifestyle is perhaps celebrated by the faith, they're not able to participate in it. But they aren't alone. The issue comes down to homosexual people being told or believing that their attractions are inherently good and not to be questioned, whereas a host of other things Christians deal with (and must refrain from) are believed to be inherently bad or unhealthy (although that is changing).
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:57 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:False dichotomy. God hates both sins.
It's hard for me to believe that God is ok with a pastor using God's name to earn millions of dollars and own jets, but God isn't ok with a gay priest.
The issue isn’t what sin is worse but why aren’t all sins condemned and repentance preached?
Homosexuality is a sin like others, and like all sins, it needs to be rejected as an acceptable way for Christians to live.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:57 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Two things are true here:
1) Christians have put too much emphasis on making homosexuality the center of a fight/dispute that should be about much more than homosexuality. UMC literature talks about guns, government-guaranteed employment, etc. Churches have been systematically undermined for decades by those looking to use them as a platform for social advocacy. In other words, the war should be on Gospel-less religion, not merely homosexuality.
2) That said, homosexuality gets particular attention because there is a movement to ask the church to tolerate ongoing sin without exception, including promotion of those practicing said sin to positions of authority. More in line with #1, countless protestant (and Catholic) churches and clergies go well beyond this to where the church/faith is just a messaging device for their positions on gay/trans rights, etc. If someone is a seminary student or clergy and is more active in LGTB events than evangelism, they're merely using the faith for political ends.
There aren't a lot of businesses or even government jobs where one can make a life holding a sign and yelling and thinking deep thoughts about injustice. The church is however, and it's being abused by people who have little/no interest in the Great Commission.
This is so very true. You nailed it.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:58 am to TigerChief10
The beef with it mostly stems from transfer of disease. A lot of the Torah Laws have to deal with keeping a healthy populace. Homosexually is a hot bed for disease to this day. The bible doesn't forbid alcohol at all. But it does shellfish and scaleless fish. So why doesn't the church rail against eating oysters? because it only kills 13 old people a year, and doesn't create an AIDS pandemic.
Fornication is also looked down on, it also causes disease to this day.
Fornication is also looked down on, it also causes disease to this day.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:58 am to TigerChief10
Everyone sins.
The difference is whether or not you acknowledge those sins and then feel guilt. Not for being caught doing wrong, but for doing wrong by God.
People who are openly gay, and do so knowing what Bible says are not true Christians.
The same can be said for those who continuously steal, lie, cheat.... etc without ever feeling any guilt and then need for repentance.
The difference is whether or not you acknowledge those sins and then feel guilt. Not for being caught doing wrong, but for doing wrong by God.
People who are openly gay, and do so knowing what Bible says are not true Christians.
The same can be said for those who continuously steal, lie, cheat.... etc without ever feeling any guilt and then need for repentance.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:59 am to TigerChief10
quote:
I love Christian values but I have never understood how someone can go get blasted drunk then scream about being gay being a sin. They are both sins as outlined in the bible.
Drinking alcohol is not a sin, getting drunk is not a sin. The mentions of drunkenness in the Bible are that it's unwise (Proverbs 23:19-35) and leads to forgetting God's laws (Proverbs 31:1-7). Ephesians 5:15-18 sums it up well...
quote:
Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
Homosexuality is never addressed explicitly as a sin in the New Testament (as adultery is, for example) but referenced as something bad (specifically Romans 1:24-27). The Catholic Catechism (all Christian religions are descendants of Catholicism) expands a bit on homosexuality in Nos. 2357-59:
quote:
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
A lot of these latter expansions derive from expansions on St. Thomas Acquinas' writings on God's Natural law (interestingly, St. Thomas drew on the writings of Aristotle).
In the Old Testament there are definite mentions, such as Leviticus 20:13 which says:
quote:
And if a man also lies with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
There is a deeper religious discussion available on this as the coming of Jesus was a change for Christians from the teachings of the Old Testament to those of the New Testament. The teachings in Leviticus were said to come from God through Moses but some of those same teachings included things like sacrificing animals as part of their atonement for sins. The coming of Jesus changed the animal sacrifice aspect, does that too mean that homosexuality was up for change as well?
But I digress...
The expansion of the consumption of any alcohol is a Protestant evolution that came about in the 19th century (see: abstentionism and prohibitionism) while the views on homosexuality have been fairly consistent throughout history and are only just now beginning to see wider-ranging acceptance of change.
tl;dr - drinking wasn't considered a sin until recently but homosexuality being a sin stretches back to hundreds of years before Christ.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:00 pm to Rossberg02
quote:
And it’s a sin that is trying to be normalized without asking for forgiveness/repentance.
Like no-fault divorce.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:01 pm to Rossberg02
quote:
Christians see it as a sin. And it’s a sin that is trying to be normalized without asking for forgiveness/repentance. Not an exactly good example (yes Christianity is full of hypocrisy) but it would be as if we made thievery normal and unpunished
Well put.
I’d take it a step farther and say it’s the only sin that people are actively trying to reinterpret the scripture on.
Nobody is saying “y’all misunderstood the Bible on murder, greed, theft, lust, adultery.”
We might gloss over them too much (which is not OK) but there is not a large part of the church trying rewrite what the Bible says about them as sin. That’s why it becomes such a big deal as opposed to other sins we struggle with.
ETA: I’ve said repeatedly that the church took the wrong stance in trying to stop gays from getting married or ostracizing them. They should have welcomed them in but been up front about how they wouldn’t stop calling it sin.
The church, and less importantly Republicans, lost a good 20 years to Anti-church sentiments and leftism because of this.
This post was edited on 2/17/20 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:03 pm to Bard
quote:
drinking wasn't considered a sin until recently
To my knowledge drinking isn’t a sin. Not sure why the OP is trying to equate drinking a beer and sucking a dick.
It’s a weird melt.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:04 pm to Hudson00
quote:
Partaking in alcohol in moderation is not a sin but indulging to excess would be considered one.
. . . and yet if a guy sucks as much as ONE fat cock, he gets branded as a Homo Queer !! So much for CONSISTENCY.
By the way, I agree with this.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:13 pm to Rebel
quote:
To my knowledge drinking isn’t a sin. Not sure why the OP is trying to equate drinking a beer and sucking a dick.
In some of the Protestant churches it is, especially the more rural ones. Some Pentecostals, some of the more "primitive" Baptists, etc. still preach that even the consumption of a single drop of alcohol is a sin (the Protestant side of Christianity here in the US is where the prohibition movement began which eventually led to the 18th Amendment).
This post was edited on 2/17/20 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:15 pm to Bard
Sidenote: It appears this thread has gotten the anchor. 
***EDIT***
Whoops! Nevermind.
***EDIT***
Whoops! Nevermind.
This post was edited on 2/17/20 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:17 pm to TigerChief10
everyone is a sinner all need to repent
difference is fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars and thieves are not trying to get all that accepted as not a sin or revise shite out of church or scripture!
difference is fornicators, adulterers, murderers, liars and thieves are not trying to get all that accepted as not a sin or revise shite out of church or scripture!
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:20 pm to Bard
quote:
In some of the Protestant churches it is, especially the more rural ones. Some Pentecostals, some of the more "primitive" Baptists, etc. still preach that even the consumption of a single drop of alcohol is a sin (the Protestant side of Christianity here in the US is where the prohibition movement began which eventually led to the 18th Amendment).
i grew up a baptist in the 80s and 90s and thought it was a sin (even though i don't think i ever heard a preacher explicitly say it) till i was in college.
i didn't have a drink till i was 25 and didn't start drinking "semi-regularly" till i was 30.
not that i want to add extra burden on our already sinful selves, but i think it's almost better that i was that legalistic growing up. i saved a lot of money and made a lot better choices than most of my friends. i have a lot of friends in my 30s and 40s that had a good time in college, but regret that they made some bad choices under the influence now as believers.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:25 pm to TigerChief10
quote:
Why do churches get so worked up over gays?
True believers of all stripes get worked up over little shite.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:25 pm to oldtimefootball
quote:
Engaging in "UNNATURAL ACTS" is what the bible condemns. Live together, love each other but don't engage in unnatural sexual acts. Is this asking too much for gays and lesbians to do?
What about heterosexuals? They can commit sodomy also. Sodomy isn't just a gay thing. The Bible is pretty clear about divorce, pre-marital sex, getting drunk, etc., but nobody in the church seems to get worked up about those things. Especially if the people are over 30. I know a lot of Christians who lived together before marriage. Especially ones that were divorced or widowed.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 12:27 pm to tilco
There are soooooo many preachers/ priests with drinking problems. If the preacher himself does not have a drinking problem, chances are his wife does
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