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Posted on 3/2/22 at 3:47 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
How so? Were they doing military exercises at the borders to intimidate Russia? Was Poland hiding nukes or did we denuclearize them? Doesn't even seem like they have enough weapons to defend their own country...... What exactly was the threat here?
NATO expansion is the threat.
At that point they would have marched all the way to owning the majority of Russia’s western border, having orchestrated the overthrow of Ukraine to get there.
Why should Putin not think he’s next?
Posted on 3/2/22 at 3:49 pm to Seldom Seen
I think those ex Soviet satellite countries invaded NATO ti get the hell away from Russia.
If you don't know history read then type.
If you don't know history read then type.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 3:51 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
NATO expansion is the threat. At that point they would have marched all the way to owning the majority of Russia’s western border, having orchestrated the overthrow of Ukraine to get there.
Pretending that sovereign nations applying to and being accepted as members of NATO is the same thing as a forcible military occupation is one of the most asinine things I have read on this site. It’s willfully being obtuse and ignoring facts on the ground.
quote:
At that point they would have marched all the way to owning the majority of Russia’s western border, having orchestrated the overthrow of Ukraine to get there.
The current Ukrainian government was not selected by the CIA and was legitimately elected in a landslide just 2 years ago. That current legitimately elected government wants closer ties with the West and the EU.
quote:
Why should Putin not think he’s next?
Are you asking why Putin would not think that somehow he’ll just wake up and be a NATO member?
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 3:55 pm to IT_Dawg
quote:
sovereign country of Ukraine
I .... declare .... SOVEREIGNTY
Posted on 3/2/22 at 3:57 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Pretending that sovereign nations applying to and being accepted as members of NATO is the same thing as a forcible military occupation
I never stated it’s the same as forcible occupation. You don’t need to put words on my mouth.
Imagine this. Warsaw Pact in South America. At the end of the Cold War, they agree to not expend north.
Over the next 20 years, they repeatedly break that promise and expand to Mexico’s southern border.
Then, Russia orchestrates the overthrow of the US ally Mexican government, and they install a Russian puppet who wants to join the Warsaw Pact, bringing the Warsaw Pact to the Texas border.
No problem with that huh?
Maybe we should trust them.
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 3:59 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
Then, Russia orchestrates the overthrow of the US ally Mexican government, and they install a Russian puppet who wants to join the Warsaw Pact, bringing the Warsaw Pact to the US border.
THE CURRENT, LEGITIMATELY ELECTED GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE WAS NOT INSTALLED BY THE UNITED STATES.
The government you reference was defeated easily in those elections, and the guy we put in charge was prosecuted by the current administration.
So what exactly is your point again? Because your comparisons and examples are garbage.
quote:
No problem with that huh?
“Having a problem with it” and believing that it’s our right to invade Mexico and impose our will are different things.
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:02 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
I must have missed the part where NATO forced the Central and Eastern European nations to join.
That’s what the OP is too dimwitted to see. These countries all joined NATO willingly after being freed from the Soviet installed communist regimes after WWII. Since OP likes maps, here’s one…
This is from the Cold War era. At that time, those same counties that have now or currently want to join NATO were a part of the Warsaw Pact. You know why they were in the Warsaw Pact? Because the Soviet Union, who invaded and installed puppet regimes in each, said so. That’s why they all want in NATO now, so they don’t one day find themselves again as puppets of Moscow.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:04 pm to Seldom Seen
The amount of authoritarian sympathizers on this board is alarming. Putin is trying to recreate the USSR, stop apologizing for wannabe communists.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:05 pm to Seldom Seen
NATO's expansion is endless.
Last year, NATO head was talking NATO is going to fight China in Asia. Looks like NATO want to be a global military coalition.
It is good for China, Russia paused NATO's expansion this time.
I do not mind UK and Lithuania bombed by Russia. These countries jump up and down like they are super powers. Without US, they are nobody.
Last year, NATO head was talking NATO is going to fight China in Asia. Looks like NATO want to be a global military coalition.
It is good for China, Russia paused NATO's expansion this time.
I do not mind UK and Lithuania bombed by Russia. These countries jump up and down like they are super powers. Without US, they are nobody.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:06 pm to Seldom Seen
quote:Russia is invading Ukraine
Who's Invading Who?
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:08 pm to JohnHager913
quote:
NATO's expansion is endless.
You mean the organization that only admits nations who apply for admission? You do understand that Russia is also a member of a very similar alliance with equally open admissions? It’s just a fact that no one outside of Moscow’s puppet states in Central Asia want to be a part of the CIS (successor entity to the Warsaw Pact).
Who in your view should be in charge of overseeing what sovereign nations should be allowed to do? Is there an entity that should have to approve such things?
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:09 pm to JohnHager913
quote:
I do not mind UK and Lithuania bombed by Russia
Other than it would trigger WWIII? Both are NATO members. Do you even know what Article V of the North Atlantic Charter is?
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:12 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
That the US has wrongfully invaded other nations has no bearing on whether what Russia is doing is wrong
Yes. It has no bearing. But, I feel shameless whenever I see us, as a nation, proudly talk about sovereignty and how one country invading another must be universally condemned.
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:12 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
THE CURRENT, LEGITIMATELY ELECTED GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE WAS NOT INSTALLED BY THE UNITED STATES.
John Brennan - then CIA director - visited Ukraine regularly leading up to their revolution that ousted Putin s ally.
He’s an upstanding individual. I’m sure he was just vacationing. I hear Ukraine is nice to visit that time of year.
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:12 pm to LSU2a
quote:
The amount of authoritarian sympathizers on this board is alarming. Putin is trying to recreate the USSR, stop apologizing for wannabe communists.
US is wasting a lot money on this NATO/military expansion. Europe and US is safe without this expansion. A lot of the new NATO members are parasites.
Instead of weapons, US can use the money to create jobs, do research, find cancer drugs.
Instead, US policy is hijacked by the defense companies to fight the endless wars.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:15 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
John Brennan - then CIA director - visited Ukraine regularly leading up to their revolution that ousted Putin s ally.
Oh you mean the one 8 years ago? You mean the Revolution that replaced Putin’s ally with a western sympathizer?
Yes I know exactly what you are referencing.
That government has already been replaced via Ukrainian elections.
Are you saying that Russia is justified in overthrowing a government in Ukraine simply because it came after the government that was installed in 2014?
Also, and I understand this may be hard to grasp—but does anyone think it’s possible that Ukraine elected Zelensky’s government in 2019 because it wanted to align itself with the West?
This post was edited on 3/2/22 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:15 pm to BobBoucher
quote:
John Brennan - then CIA director - visited Ukraine regularly leading up to their revolution that ousted Putin s ally.
I’m sure he was just vacationing. I hear Ukraine is nice to visit that time of year.
Putin's ally was ousted in 2014.
Poroshenko was elected in 2014.
Zelensky was elected in 2019 beating Poroshenko.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:17 pm to Seldom Seen
A bit dramatic but yes, entangling alliances are a form of loss of sovereignty. It's why the founding fathers warned against them.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:17 pm to Seldom Seen
So according to you, a sovereign country cannot try to protect their citizens because some deranged psycho won’t like it 
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