re: What Is Society’s Responsibility When the Foster System Fails?

I'm curious why she is advocating for better foster care but is not fostering kids herself to lead by example and provide a better model for others to follow.

Well obviously the answer you're wanting to hear is we should just kill them all before they're born.

And like a good little prog, you can't see the forest for the trees: You speak as if the system isn't already broken ("What Is Society’s Responsibility When the Foster System Fails?"), or that we can save ourselves from the human behavior and condition, e.g., abandonment, irresponsibility, murder, accidents, death and disease. One thing should be made clear: I know your kind lives in a utopian dream world, but the broken human condition will ALWAYS be a fundamental part of mankind, no matter how many babies we murder in the womb. Let's get that straight right away.

And if we can't save ourselves, then a politician and his bureaucrat damn sure can't.

quote:

---

We talk a lot about personal responsibility, but we also need to talk about institutional responsibility.

---

This is rich coming from you, and you're certainly right. Practice what you preach.

I certainly don't have the answer, but I know more government isn't it. I have 2 close family members dealing with foster care and adoption right now, and it's been horrific. These agents of the state look at themselves as super heros and more interested in rehabilitating someone who doesn't want it than they are seeing that the kids are setup for a better life. I also know a 35 year veteran social worker who has told me that there's a whole other side of the coin to the problem: social workers and state agents are on the take, and the services they provide are to traffic children to as many predators as they can.

I know that'll hit a nerve with a prog, since you don't think children in the womb have a basic human right, nor do ones outside of it have the human dignity to not be sent down to the parade to watch men wag their dongs and read to them about genitals, but child sex trafficking is a huge problem in foster care. So that and the way society looks at children nowadays needs to be fixed first and foremost. That's one way that people with your worldview can start contributing from day 1: Treat children as they are, i.e., innocent human beings with full human rights and that they need to be protected at all costs, and at all ages. A, "changing of the mind," if you will.

So, I say we start there, and completely rehabilitate the people who are being paid to fail the children and society, because they collectively suck at what they do. There are good ones here and there, but ultimately this system is made up of individuals, and too many are awful at what they do and have lost sight of what they are paid to do. This is one of those instances where paying taxes towards it is not only necessary and needed, but it should always be a good ROI. We've always tithed a portion of our income to help foster kids, but oftentimes I fear that I'm only funding the exploitation and trafficking of children than them actually being taken care of.

My (and most other parents') biggest fear is my children being left to the state if something were to happen to my wife and I and close family. That's not a ringing endorsement, if I had to say so myself. Reputation is hell to gain and easy to lose. It's broken now, it needs to be fixed now, but the very politicians who you think will fix it are far too focused on sending 200 billion more dollars to Ukraine and Israel and distributing herpes drugs to the Congo to deal with any pesky domestic matters, like saving our most vulnerable children that we have to live beside in society.

quote:

---

Where did I make this argument?

---

Right here.

quote:

---

What Is Society’s Responsibility When the Foster System Fails?

---

You are quite literally asking for society’s solution. One you figure that out, you have to put your solutions into action. That’s called governing.

quote:

---

I had no idea she declared herself to be excluded from society

---

She is a nimby liberal.

quote:

---

What should we expect from someone who was never taught how to be a parent? Who never saw a healthy relationship, who was raised by the state

---

Well we certainly don't give the state MORE taxpayer money.

quote:

---

At what point does society step in beyond a punitive role, but to prevent tragedy?

---

It's called charity. Yes the guy you speak of was dealt a shite hand, but ultimately, at some point, you have to take responsibility for yourself. Neglecting/killing an infant is not something that will garner any sympathy from me for that piece of shite, regardless of your circumstances.

quote:

---

We talk a lot about personal responsibility, but we also need to talk about institutional responsibility.

---

Correct. The state/government, and it's workers are given blank checks to fail. And it seems the more they fail, the more money is given to them.

quote:

---

If foster care is meant to protect and prepare kids for adulthood, and it consistently fails to do so, then what's the fix? And how do we stop another baby from dying the same way?

---

Jesus. That's the answer. I doubt that foster care had a strong emphasis on Christianity. If you have a moral center, then the tragedies this guy was put upon and that he put upon himself may have saved 2 lives.

quote:

---

Because when we don’t, we all pay the price.

---

No I don't. I've not once been robbed or murdered by an orphan.

quote:

---

If a child grows up without stability, love, or support, they’re statistically more likely to end up in prison and/or on welfare.

---

Inarguably true... however:

quote:

---

That costs society financially

---

It doesn't have to. Prisons are always going to be needed (but still should be run at the state level and below), but why is emergency healthcare being made out like it isn't part of the economic problems in our society itself? If federal public aid didn't exist, it wouldn't still cost the taxpayer for the individual to receive care.

As for public aid, that is NOT the job of the federal government, nor should it ever be. Local areas are responsible for their public aid, or should be, according to the Constitution.

quote:

---

Helping "the whole of society" means investing in stability so we don’t end up spending far more trying to manage chaos later.

---

Spend more to save more? Sounds "commie", Tommy. The taxpayers shouldn't be contributing to help society. Volunteerism is not incentivized because our taxes are being taken to fund things we could do better with the money ourselves.

Uncle Sam needs to GTFO of our pockets. You, too. If you see someone in need, help them. Don't ask the government to do it for you. That is not a supportable system, as it is the machine feeding itself so to speak.

quote:

---

If we know that foster kids are at high risk of homelessness, addiction, and incarceration when they age out, why wouldn’t we do something on the front end to prevent that?

---

When is the last time you built a home for a homeless person you saw or an orphan that you know of?

I bet your answer is at least somewhat related to the thought that "the federal government has programs for that purpose".

That thought process is circular.

quote:

---

It’s like maintaining infrastructure. You either fix the bridge before it collapses, or you spend exponentially more cleaning up the wreckage after.

---

Exactly like maintaining infrastructure, except if you build something correctly, maintenance is not as intensive in the long run.

"Fixing the bridge before it collapses" would be the local community communicating and coming together to help those in need, whereas the way you explain it here, the bridge wasn't built until after the initial infrastructure (local community) had collapsed.

Why did they collapse? Taxation of the individual to fund government organizations takes money out of pockets, and the individual is no longer able to afford to help where most problems can be solved... at the LOWEST level.

When you federalize aid, you're taking money form the communities and rerouting it to the same government that says they are "here to help".

quote:

---

None of us lives in a vacuum.

---

You don't have to live in a vacuum to share the mindset I am arguing. You have to get off your own arse and do something rather than complaining because others aren't getting off their collective asses and ignoring the reasons why they don't.

quote:

---

The kid who doesn’t get help might be the one who breaks into your car one day, or, if supported, the one who teaches your kids or helps build your community.

---

"If supported"... Doesn't mean federally. I could (and do) support someone individually, and there are no government programs involved.

Do you?

We don't need federal aid programs. They are just another reason to tax us and build up government coffers. I'm not saying some government programs don't work, because I have used them before. What I am saying is that the government should be removed from our pockets, and more people should GAF about people outside their own home and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING about whatever it is they see in their community.

quote:

---

I asked for solutions in the OP. This isn't a fishing exhibition.

---

Without understanding the particular system this person was in

What we are aware of is that he attended high school from ninth grade through 12th grade. How much did he apply himself? Did he participate in sports? Did he try to achieve good grades as everybody would've hoped and wanted? Were there available scholarships that he was working with the guidance counselors at the school?

It is not necessarily a failure role of the foster care system because he still got his incomplete education but his unwillingness to apply himself to better his life lead to his current situation and the untimely death of a child at his hands

quote:

---

Tragically, the baby died while in his care.

---

This is an important point I would like to know more about, please.

quote:

---

You sure as hell aren't arguing for less government.

Unless you've had a stroke in the last 24hrs.

---

Can you name a specific example when I've argued for more government?