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re: Voddie Baucham explains the looming catastrophe of CRT in the church
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:21 pm to the808bass
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:21 pm to the808bass
quote:
I just have to keep my daughter’s school reminded that we don’t need that crap in her school.
i'm actually about to take a three day trip to White Sands and Guadlupe peak with the superintendent of my son's private Christian school and his son.
great guy and against CRT, but he often likes to bring up politics with me because he knows i don't give him the suburban concerned moderate white soccer-mom answer when faith and politics collide. i'm free to be myself, but i have to remember my wife works there as well.
1
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:21 pm to pawpoints19
quote:
To suggest that white supremacy had nothing do with the founding and ultimate financial and political success of this country is just flatly ahistorical.
That mask keeps slipping, bro.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:22 pm to pawpoints19
Do you have a draft of the document you’d like to replace the constitution with?
I’d love to see what you people want.
Revenge?
Equity?
Or equality?
I’d love to see what you people want.
Revenge?
Equity?
Or equality?
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:23 pm to 3nOut
So how do you suggest we remedy that? Do you think that telling black kids that their white peers and neighbors have advantages that they will never have is going to be empowering for them? I know . . . maybe we tell them that their empowerment depends on the use of the machinery of the state to redistribute wealth and power that was misappropriated? I'm sure that's going to work out well.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:23 pm to 3nOut
Our current Headmaster (formerly of Briarwood in Birmingham) seems to have straddled the issue pretty nicely given the original fireworks we had with some stoking of the fire by our Diversity Coordinator during the Kaepernick episode of our American Culture.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:27 pm to roadGator
quote:
Do you have a draft of the document you’d like to replace the constitution with?
I’d love to see what you people want.
Revenge?
Equity?
Or equality?
I don't know who the you people are supposed to be but...
I think what CRT inspired historians want is a more complete picture of history and how things that have been ignored or missunderstood in the past can inform better solutions if we better understand that history.
Again that's different that what CRT seeks to do, which i'm not as clear on.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:28 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Everything David talks about as good can be easily achieved outside of CRT. There is no need to adopt an all-encompassing worldview in order to do an analytical assessment of how discipline circumstances in schools skews perceptions. And yes, I know he says all the right things about how he's not an adherent, but the rest of his writing belies that.
Moreover, French adopts the same dishonest approach we're seeing in media (CRT as an academic theory, etc.) and does the same cherrypicking (leaving out the anti-liberal, anti-rule of law concepts). I just don't know how you can write a piece about attempts to ban illiberal ideas in liberal education without acknowledging the ideas that are targeted seek to undermine the very liberal order itself.
i guess we just read that differently. i see him as agreeing with your first statement "I will occasionally raise an eyebrow and go "fair point" when I read something in the CRT/intersectionality realm"
i feel like the rest of the article is giving an example of that, then saying that it can explain how we got to a disparate outcome, but it can't be a totalitarian view of how we operate to fix or address any disparate outcome because it's bereft of the Gospel.
maybe just a different worldview or theological view gives a different lense that we read the article through.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:30 pm to pawpoints19
This country has been politically and economically successful when it REJECTED white supremacy. We fought great wars and made great strides based on our belief in human equality and on promoting the concept of universal human rights around the world. We liberated continents from tyranny. We became an economic model and a beacon of prosperity. To suggest that all of that is founded, even in part, on white supremacy is not only ahistorical, but truly ignorant and myopic.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:32 pm to pawpoints19
quote:
Again that's different that what CRT seeks to do, which i'm not as clear on.
How could you know that if you aren’t clear about CRT?
Who do you think you are fooling?
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:32 pm to 3nOut
quote:
i feel like the rest of the article is giving an example of that, then saying that it can explain how we got to a disparate outcome
I agree this is the key point. Why did we get this outcome and how do we address it moving forward.
You can't address the problem of outcome if you don't acknowledge the disparity. You can't fix it if you don't understand why.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:35 pm to jawnybnsc
quote:
This country has been politically and economically successful when it REJECTED white supremacy.
So what were we from 1776-1865 then?
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:38 pm to jawnybnsc
quote:
So how do you suggest we remedy that?
Short answer, Jesus.
Longer answer, to point them to Christ and then attempt to break the cycle of having children out of wedlock and breaking the law at an early age. The ministry i've worked with tries to teach them job interview skills, life skills, and feeds them regularly. i unfortunately know 2 kids with records for stealing a candy bar, because mom was drugged out on the couch and there was literally no food in the house over the weekend, so they walked down and stole a candy bar from the convenience store.
this is just personal experience from my work in an impoverished community in Temple, TX.
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:44 pm to 3nOut
quote:
Longer answer, to point them to Christ and then attempt to break the cycle of having children out of wedlock and breaking the law at an early age.
Wouldn't it be helpful to know/understand how they got put into that cycle? Wouldn't that be helpful in figuring out ways that go beyond our personal interventions in trying to figure out how to help. Unfortunately there isn't enough of our Christian goodwill to overcome these cycle writ large. That where these conversations of understanding root causes come in.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:46 pm to pawpoints19
quote:Lyndon Baines Johnson.
Wouldn't it be helpful to know/understand how they got put into that cycle?
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:47 pm to pawpoints19
quote:
Wouldn't it be helpful to know/understand how they got put into that cycle? Wouldn't that be helpful in figuring out ways that go beyond our personal interventions in trying to figure out how to help. Unfortunately there isn't enough of our Christian goodwill to overcome these cycle writ large. That where these conversations of understanding root causes come in.
Are you under the impression CRT is interested in root causes?
CRT is interested in defining what the root causes are without any collaboration, investigation or discourse. It dictates. To the extent you want to differentiate CRT from antiracism (which is silly because antiracism is the progeny of CRT), the approach is the same.
French references analytical tools that may or may not be also associated with CRT, holds them up as CRT, and then goes "look how CRT can be useful!"
Posted on 7/7/21 at 1:51 pm to Jbird
quote:
Wouldn't it be helpful to know/understand how they got put into that cycle?
Lyndon Baines Johnson.
beat me to it, but...
probably the group that started/encourages Jim Crow, likes no cash bail for violent offenders, pays people to stay home and not work, encourages abortion for no fault sex, and the dissolution of the nuclear family.
if you want to use CRT to point back to democratic policies destroying the black family and leading to the cycle of poverty, and then address it by dropping their awful policies, we can be in agreement.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 2:34 pm to pawpoints19
quote:
My understanding of CRT is not an issue of collective guilt, but rather a collective focus on how to fix problems.
You might want to do a little more digging.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 2:45 pm to Mike da Tigah
We left a rather large church in South Baton Rouge, over CRT. One day the elders announced they were accepting of a family's transgender son and would allow him to use the girls' restroom. Then came openly inviting the gay community. All along acting like we were the evil ones for questioning when they were going to condemn the lifestyle these people were living. That never came, just the opposite. The now "pastor" stood on the pulpit one day and called the us in the congregation that wouldn't accept these new "members" as they were, the lesser of men. Accepting people is taught in the bible, but accepting their sin is not and the are all about ignoring sins for pumping up those numbers.
CRT in the church is very real and very local. All of this started 5 years or so ago and we have been in a great new church for almost 2 years now.
CRT in the church is very real and very local. All of this started 5 years or so ago and we have been in a great new church for almost 2 years now.
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 7/7/21 at 9:47 pm to pawpoints19
quote:
Why was the phrase all men are created equal not actually practiced in its inception?
Because it was a totally new concept not practiced anywhere in the world. Of course not everyone was on board at first. Mindsets had to be changed to accept the radical ideas proposed by American independence. It was the words and ideas set forth at our founding that allowed the old ideas and political systems to make way for the new. These ideas inspired changes around the world.
Posted on 7/8/21 at 8:15 am to Adajax
quote:
Because it was a totally new concept not practiced anywhere in the world.
Really? Because I'm pretty sure Jesus Himself preached it.
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