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re: Vatican warns bishops not to deny communion to Biden, politicians over abortion
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:01 pm to Crimson Wraith
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:01 pm to Crimson Wraith
So...following fricking Church doctrine is politically weaponizing the Sacrament?
frick this heretic pope.
frick this heretic pope.
1
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:12 pm to Crimson Wraith
People like Joe Biden who are staunch Democrats but say that they personally oppose abortion put Christian churches in a very bad spot.
Do Christian Churches allow Democrats to be in the congregation? Or do they kick them out because they support the political party that endorses abortion?
I'm not aware of any Christian church that doesn't allow Democrats in the congregation.
Biden to the Pope: "I'm a Believer. I'm a Catholic. I am personally opposed to abortion." How is the Pope or any other Christian church leader supposed to answer that? by saying "Get out"? If so, then no Democrat should be in ANY Christian church congregation.
That's my opinion.
Do Christian Churches allow Democrats to be in the congregation? Or do they kick them out because they support the political party that endorses abortion?
I'm not aware of any Christian church that doesn't allow Democrats in the congregation.
Biden to the Pope: "I'm a Believer. I'm a Catholic. I am personally opposed to abortion." How is the Pope or any other Christian church leader supposed to answer that? by saying "Get out"? If so, then no Democrat should be in ANY Christian church congregation.
That's my opinion.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:14 pm to Champagne
If you say you are personally opposed to abortion, but support policies that result in more abortions, how opposed are you really?
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:16 pm to Champagne
quote:
Biden to the Pope: "I'm a Believer. I'm a Catholic. I am personally opposed to abortion." How is the Pope or any other Christian church leader supposed to answer that? by saying "Get out"? If so, then no Democrat should be in ANY Christian church congregation.
That's my opinion.
This too.
It's a pandora's box that will be tough to shut. And I don't necessarily disagree with taking that step, but it would be a deathblow to the public relevancy of the Catholic church by taking that sort of stand.
All of the, what I can only guess are Protestants calling the Church "Evil," and "Pagan," would turn to calling the Church "totalitarian" and "big brother," and "too political."
This is one of the handful of decisions where Francis is at least being wise. I hope he has a bigger conversation planned and this isn't a hard no, but a "Let's talk about what this means."
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:18 pm to tigafan4life
quote:
So the Vatican is saying to not deny communion to anyone then?
They’ll give you communion, and you’re supposed to know in your heart whether you deserve it or not.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:32 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
What you'd be asking Catholic priests to do is the same as what we DON'T want the government doing, namely actually "tracking the sin and support of it." You'd have to keep a list of "offending politicians," and deny them all the Eucharist, you can't just choose the president
And?
Either you have beliefs and doctrine or you have none.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:36 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
deathblow to the public relevancy of the Catholic church by taking that sort of stand.
We disagree on two things. Number 1 first and foremost Christians should not change their fundamental beliefs with the shifting sand of culture.
Number 2 I thing by doing so you are doing far more to ensure irrelevance than by enforcing it. If you are completely the same as the world around you then no one will even notice you. Joining the church is like signing your name to a change.org petition. A completely meaningless gesture to check a box with no consequences
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:36 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
And?
Either you have beliefs and doctrine or you have none.
It starts at the Politicians and then goes to normal non-political folks eventually. Then, there are lists and Eucharists passports, etc. It's on the sinner to confess and to take the Eucharist in a state of grace. That's between the person and God, and a private confession to a priest.
That isn't to be mandated by a priest, or controlled by priests.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:38 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
We disagree on two things. Number 1 first and foremost Christians should not change their fundamental beliefs with the shifting sand of culture.
I don't disagree with that at all. But we aren't talking about whether or not a person who supports abortion should, on their own, be able to take the Eucharist if they choose to.
We are talking about an administrative action to withhold something that is supposed to be available to anyone who feels they are in a state of grace and wants it. That's the point.
AND, let me make this clear, I DO THINK the we should reject access to the Eucharist to politicians or anyone who publicly supports and encourages abortion. 150%.
However, I think the decision and the action should be taken with care and the right kind of dialog.
quote:
Number 2 I thing by doing so you are doing far more to ensure irrelevance than by enforcing it. If you are completely the same as the world around you then no one will even notice you. Joining the church is like signing your name to a change.org petition. A completely meaningless gesture to check a box with no consequences
I also agree on this. SO we don't disagree at all.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:43 pm to Crimson Wraith
How many Hail Marys should he say then? Billions probably, but I’m not counting.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:43 pm to Crimson Wraith
The Catholic Church, for decades, turns a blind eye to the rape of boys and only "addresses" it when it can no longer ignore it...but denying communion to someone who supports the murder of the unborn is forbidden.
Yeah -- as per usual, the Catholic Church is not on the side of those who need protecting the most.
Shocker.
Yeah -- as per usual, the Catholic Church is not on the side of those who need protecting the most.
Shocker.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:45 pm to Crimson Wraith
Librul pope being librul.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:45 pm to Crimson Wraith
What a disappointment our pope has become
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:50 pm to Crimson Wraith
quote:
“The concern in the Vatican is not to use access to the Eucharist as a political weapon,” Antonio Spadaro, a Jesuit priest and ally of the pope, told the Times.
This Feauxp needs to learn that continuing down the path of sin and not repenting is a one way ticket to hell.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 6:57 pm to Crimson Wraith
Broke: Catholic Pope
Woke: Patriarch of Alexandria
Bespoke: Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
Woke: Patriarch of Alexandria
Bespoke: Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:41 pm to Freauxzen
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"
Edmond Burke
Edmond Burke
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:44 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
They’ll give you communion, and you’re supposed to know in your heart whether you deserve it or not.
No one is deserving of anything but damnation.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 7:55 pm to Crimson Wraith
As someone who has been going through RCIA and found truth in Catholicism, this makes me question things a bit.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:04 pm to Crimson Wraith
The Catholic Church has no principles.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:07 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
hesitancy is ok. We are in a completely different world than even 30 years ago
If you believe in your principles, you don't change for expediency.
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