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re: Vatican warns bishops not to deny communion to Biden, politicians over abortion
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:20 pm to TROLA
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:20 pm to TROLA
quote:
Why does even teach its tenets if they don’t hold accountable it’s own followers.. we aren’t talking forgiveness but active disassociation with major issues..
The current pope is a major problem for the Church. He's a horrific combination of stupid and Leftist, and enjoys the limelight the media happily gives him as he yaps about climate change and "equity," all the while Catholics of all stripes get more and more comfortable not supporting the church with dollars and butts in pews. The Church had issues before this moron's ascendency, but he has alienated/bewildered millions of Catholics, even some of the older/most staunch true believers.
0
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:32 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
Aren't Catholics prohibited from taking communion unless they have gone to confession first?!?! Hmmmm, any guesses as to when the dementia patient last 'confessed?'
I'm sure he's confessed to "systemic racism" or some such bullshite, which is all up in Catholicism now.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:47 pm to bamarep
Evil ? Nah. Just a clown Pope.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 11:02 pm to bamarep
quote:
So the church that once excommunicated someone for preventing a pregnancy now protects someone for ending a pregnancy.
Y'all tell me the Catholic church isn't evil
The Catholic church is a hypocritical joke. That's coming from a former Catholic
Posted on 6/15/21 at 11:12 pm to TDsngumbo
quote:
That’s where you are wrong. Abortion is a mortal sin and supporting those who have an abortion or the funding/assistance of one is wrong whether it’s public or in private. God doesn’t only see public sin - he sees every sin. Withholding the Eucharist from those in mortal sin was the right thing to do in the church on day one and it’s the right thing to do today. The church either has beliefs and convictions or it doesn’t.
Who the hell are YOU to say it’s ok to give the Eucharist to someone in mortal sin today just because that mortal sin happens to be a common mortal sin?
It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.
When did I say I disagree? I've said twice that it should be withheld, you should probably read my posts. This is a new paradigm that is tough to deal with, however, so the decision should not be made lightly.
One of the main tenets of the Church is that it requires free will to believe, free will to put our faith in God, free will to choose not to sin, and free will to confess those sins when we do. Part of all of that is free will to accept God, via the Eucharist, as well, and to place that burden on our own FREE CHOICE. As soon as man places authority over that, you create space for other problems. Sometimes, we have to let God work, even if that means doing something that looks strange.
Free will goes out the window when we decide to withhold the Eucharist as well. That is the issue we have to work through. Saying we should stop giving the President the Communion is not the end, and that;s the problem, it isn't one person you should be worried about, as the other post said - it's a majority of Democrat Catholics that are Pro-Choice. It can't end with one person. How the Church manages that is important.
How Catholics JUSTIFY that decision is important and should be made with more thought than a simple, "Withhold the Eucharist starting right now." There are ramifications, It should appropriately be defined and understood, etc. I HOPE that's all the Pope is looking for. I have my doubts, but I still have faith that God is guiding in the right way.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 11:14 pm to Freauxzen
If you are a catholic politician you have a moral duty to at minimum denounce it in the strongest of terms. You flat out can not expand abortion rights.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 11:44 pm to TDsngumbo
quote:
That’s the whole point of true Catholics here. There is NO distinction made, according to the church’s beliefs) between having an abortion and supporting abortion. You can say you are personally opposed to abortion all you want but if you support it via policies that lead to abortions then you are in sin.
This is true. 100%
quote:
President Biden could say he personally opposes abortion until he’s blue in the face but he still clearly supports legislation which leads to easier access to it and therefore he is in a state of mortal sin.
This isn't 100% clear, it's much more complicated than that.
quote:
While I’m at it, one thing that I personally have a hard time with is that as a Catholic I’m not supposed to have sexy with my wife with ANY form of birth control (condom, pull out method, pill, etc.). I have a big problem with that because from a financial standpoint we are maxed out with children and my wife actually has a major health risk with a third pregnancy (we found out about it during the second one). The church expects me to just splooge into my wife with absolutely no method of birth control even though it could potentially put my wife and the resulting pregnancy in danger. I had planned on getting a vasectomy but then when I learned of this, I kinda put it on hold until I can get further guidance from the church on it. I try to be a good Catholic and do plan on talking to my priest about this to pick his brain before getting the vasectomy.
So you want to promote ultimate authority on one thing while clearly being confused on another, when both touch on the very core of Catholic belief - trust in God.
On one hand, limiting the Eucharist IS very much man getting in the way of letting God work... maybe - which is why it should take prayer and discernment on those making the decision. It's not letting God do the work of maybe changing the opinion or laying a guilt on someone, eventually, that changes their heart. What if Biden is supposed to take the Eucharist every day, and know he isn't necessarily doing the right thing....only to realize that on his deathbed and repent. Maybe it is that important. Maybe that is his path. That's kind of the trust we sometimes have to give.
And I'm not saying that is the CORRECT choice, but I'd hope the people involved in the decision are praying, discerning and trying to understand what God wants rather than doing what THEY WANT. Which is the wrong way to go about it.
On your point, the whole point of that belief is to allow God to work. He's going to give you exactly what you can handle. If you can handle another kid, he will. If you can't he won't. You do realize a vasectomy is also a mortal sin, maybe not as severe as abortion, but it's in the orbit. If you are a
quote:
true Catholics
You'd never consider one.
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 6/16/21 at 2:46 am to Crimson Wraith
quote:
The New York Times reported Pope Francis has warned that communion can’t be used as a political weapon by Catholic bishops. Biden is the second Catholic president in U.S. history, following President John F. Kennedy.
Shrewd move by the Pope to stay out of politics.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:41 am to mike2019tiger
Does your church support abortion? Do you even know?
Several Protestant Churches actually support abortion. At least Catholic doctrine opposed it.
Several Protestant Churches actually support abortion. At least Catholic doctrine opposed it.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 3:55 am to Crimson Wraith
Francis is wrong. This is where he needs to take the cue from some of his more ancient predecessors. At the end of the day, he is a world leader, and being a world leader entails being political. You need to make an example of the most powerful man on earth (a lay Catholic) to show the rest of your flock that supporting sin will not be tolerated.
This is one of those times the Catholic Church can and should use the Eucharist as a political weapon. They're in the saving of souls business and if you deny communion to Biden and other Catholics on the Hill like Pelosi, maybe it will allow other wayward Catholics to examine their consciences on these particular issues.
This is one of those times the Catholic Church can and should use the Eucharist as a political weapon. They're in the saving of souls business and if you deny communion to Biden and other Catholics on the Hill like Pelosi, maybe it will allow other wayward Catholics to examine their consciences on these particular issues.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 4:34 am to Crimson Wraith
Hahaha - sorry, but Catholics already use the Eucharist as a delimiter.
Any Protestant church will clearly state that ‘all are welcome’, but not so much the Catholic Church: only those initiated, thank you.
If Catholics want to limit participation only to adherents, that is purely within their purview…
Any Protestant church will clearly state that ‘all are welcome’, but not so much the Catholic Church: only those initiated, thank you.
If Catholics want to limit participation only to adherents, that is purely within their purview…
Posted on 6/16/21 at 5:38 am to Knight of Old
quote:
Any Protestant church will clearly state that ‘all are welcome’, but not so much the Catholic Church: only those initiated, thank you.
This is absolutely untrue. Many Protestant churches deny communion to people for a variety of reasons
Posted on 6/16/21 at 5:52 am to Freauxzen
quote:
On one hand, limiting the Eucharist IS very much man getting in the way of letting God work... maybe - which is why it should take prayer and discernment on those making the decision. It's not letting God do the work of maybe changing the opinion or laying a guilt on someone, eventually, that changes their heart. What if Biden is supposed to take the Eucharist every day, and know he isn't necessarily doing the right thing....only to realize that on his deathbed and repent. Maybe it is that important. Maybe that is his path. That's kind of the trust we sometimes have to give.
Or maybe administering the Eucharist properly is God's work for man. If the Eucharist is a free for all, why have priests administer it in the first place? Maybe God's path for Biden is to repent when he is publicly denied Eucharist, but your position is the clergy should be an enabler of sin?
Posted on 6/16/21 at 5:58 am to efrad
The Catholic Church is a ridiculous joke and has been for way too long. This is par for the course. My wish is for parishioners to stop going and stop donating. They should also have their exemptions removed and their lands taxed. Screw them
Posted on 6/16/21 at 6:59 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Now, these things are public and championed, and a step to withhold the Eucharist, mind you millions of Catholic in sin take it every weekend, is actually politicizing it.
bullshite.
If I stand on the Church steps before 9:30 Mass and proclaim I am in favor of abortion and gay marriage and that the Church is defying God by its doctrine, the priest should ignore that and give me the Body of Christ during that very Mass?
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:13 am to Dawgfanman
To be honest the church has never been that consistent in denying the Eucharistic to known sinners. Especially if those sinners were powerful people....even some of the Popes were guilty of grievous violation of their vows and world class sinners.
Medicis come to mind
Crusaders in the Middle Ages....
Borgia
French monarchs
Medicis come to mind
Crusaders in the Middle Ages....
Borgia
French monarchs
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:27 am to TDsngumbo
quote:
While I’m at it, one thing that I personally have a hard time with is that as a Catholic I’m not supposed to have sexy with my wife with ANY form of birth control (condom, pull out method, pill, etc.). I have a big problem with that because from a financial standpoint we are maxed out with children and my wife actually has a major health risk with a third pregnancy (we found out about it during the second one). The church expects me to just splooge into my wife with absolutely no method of birth control even though it could potentially put my wife and the resulting pregnancy in danger. I had planned on getting a vasectomy but then when I learned of this, I kinda put it on hold until I can get further guidance from the church on it. I try to be a good Catholic and do plan on talking to my priest about this to pick his brain before getting the vasectomy.
I enjoyed your description of venial vs moral sin! Sometimes, people try to over analysis it and complicate it, your explanation was great. I agree with everything you said!
I want to let you know that I had risky pregnances too. During my second one, my doctor said I shouldn't risk a third because I could die. My husband and sat down with our priest and spoke with about what the doctor said. He told us it was more important for me to be mother to the children we had than to die trying to bring to have another, so I got my tubes tied delivering my 2nd during the C-section.
It is impossible to talk to some people about about our Faith. They don't understand that it is the men and women in the church that are flawed, not the Church. And that our Church is our Faith, not the men and women of the church. And of course you still have those people that think that Catholics aren't Christians even though we started the whole thing!
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:10 am to BamaMamaof2
quote:
It is impossible to talk to some people about about our Faith. They don't understand that it is the men and women in the church that are flawed, not the Church. And that our Church is our Faith, not the men and women of the church. And of course you still have those people that think that Catholics aren't Christians even though we started the whole thing!
Everything you said there is SPOT ON.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:12 am to dafif
quote:
The Catholic Church is a ridiculous joke and has been for way too long. This is par for the course. My wish is for parishioners to stop going and stop donating. They should also have their exemptions removed and their lands taxed. Screw them
quote:
by dafif
I’ll make sure I donate $20 on Sunday in dafif’s name.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:17 am to RollTide1987
quote:
This is one of those times the Catholic Church can and should use the Eucharist as a political weapon.
I disagree that it even IS a political issue. Seriously - why are we considering withholding the Eucharist from Biden a political issue? It much, much simpler than that. It’s simply an issue of following the church’s Eucharist rules surrounding those in mortal sin. It’s as simple as that. Biden’s support of abortion puts him in mortal sin until he confesses and repents and therefore he should NOT receive the Eucharist until then.
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