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re: The Scientific Establishment Is Finally Starting To Take Intelligent Design Seriously
Posted on 5/20/22 at 5:49 pm to Liberator
Posted on 5/20/22 at 5:49 pm to Liberator
quote:
Psalm 19:1-4 declares, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
According to this passage, God’s existence and power can be clearly seen through observing the universe. The order, intricacy, and wonder of creation speak to the existence of a powerful and glorious Creator.
This ^^^^ either infuriates or scares agnostics and atheists……knowing you’re going to have to answer to a higher authority for the life you lived is pretty serious stuff. Imagine shaking your fist at God or denying His existence…. and then one day, you take your last breath and the lights didn’t exactly go out like you had hoped or believed. Wow!
3
Posted on 5/20/22 at 5:52 pm to Herooftheday
quote:how many of them were on the ark?
Probably roamed the earth at creation pre flood.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 6:41 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The universe was NOT created in a day.
Sorry! No!
2 Peter 3:8 speaks of time as irrelevant to God.
Genesis says everything created in 7 days. That verse says a day is a thousand years in God's hands. That's where I get the 7000 years from. Either way, if you're creating the universe, doing it in one day isn't that far of a stretch. If He's breathing life into dust in His image creating man, then I believe He also can speak things into existence. One isn't more impossible than the other.
quote:
Bible teaches by parable
Jesus taught in parables so that those listening would arrive at their own conclusion in a way their brain understood and that they could then explain to others.
Ever heard give a man a fish, eat for a day; Teach him to fish and he eats a lifetime? Parable
This post was edited on 5/20/22 at 6:42 pm
Posted on 5/20/22 at 6:52 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
This ^^^^ either infuriates or scares agnostics and atheists…
Posted on 5/20/22 at 7:00 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
This ^^^^ either infuriates or scares agnostics and atheists……knowing you’re going to have to answer to a higher authority for the life you lived is pretty serious stuff. Imagine shaking your fist at God or denying His existence…. and then one day, you take your last breath and the lights didn’t exactly go out like you had hoped or believed. Wow!
Im an agnostic who leans a bit towards believing in a higher power. The God of the Bible though makes no sense to me. That passage does not infuriate or scare me. Its message is something I think about often which is why I find Intelligent Design arguments interesting.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 7:30 pm to UPT
quote:
Take the intellectually laziest path, because anything that would take more thought hurts your brain.
Believing what someone else has determined through their own research takes zero intellectual ability. A child can believe a modern biology text and a child can believe the Bible.
It’s usually those who are intellectually lacking who attempt to convince people otherwise.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 8:21 pm to Azkiger
quote:
The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection doesn't assume humans just popped into existence out of no where.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm referring to your description of an organism that was designed by hyper-intelligence, being that it would not evolve from environmental pressures. The example you countered assumes we just popped into existence and that is the extent of intelligent design.
I'm saying the fact that we have evolved from external pressures does not eliminate a design by a hyperintelligent creator. Evolution itself could be the product of intelligent design.
If the two choices are "Evolution vs God snapping his fingers and man appearing on earth", then I would agree with you emphatically that Occam's Razor states that evolution is the obvious answer.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 8:31 pm to Jack Carter
quote:
I'm saying the fact that we have evolved from external pressures does not eliminate a design by a hyperintelligent creator. Evolution itself could be the product of intelligent design.
And that intelligent designer could have been the product of natural evolution.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 3:01 am to Azkiger
Some thoughts…
1. ID does not belong in science because it cannot be tested or falsified. Allowing its inclusion would make a mockery of science because anyone can support just about any idea with a sack full of supernatural miracles to fill in the holes. Where would we draw the line?
2. The history of science has shown us that deferring to a supernatural power to explain anything that isn’t completely understood in the present time is a terrible idea. The scientific method explains new things every day and has debunked countless ideas once attributed to deities. To date, there is not one single verifiable supernatural explanation for anything.
It’s much better to have a little patience and accept that we may not get all the answers for the Universe today, or in your lifetime, or even at all.
Cows standing in a pasture getting drenched by rain don’t know why they’re getting wet, but there’s still a natural explanation for it even though the cows are incapable of understanding it. Similarly, there are things we may never understand, especially now in our technological infancy.
3. I have never understood how creationists explain the introduction of species into the world. 99.9% of all species that have existed are extinct. Horses didn’t exist 65 million years ago, and T-Rexes don’t exist today. What’s the explanation for that? Has the Creator periodically introduced mature new species out of thin air like a farmer might stock a fish pond? Should we expect herds of a new species of megafauna to possibly show up at any moment? Or were all species created together at some point in the past (perhaps just a few thousand years ago) and modern mammals (including man) competed with dinosaurs and many other prehistoric species?
1. ID does not belong in science because it cannot be tested or falsified. Allowing its inclusion would make a mockery of science because anyone can support just about any idea with a sack full of supernatural miracles to fill in the holes. Where would we draw the line?
2. The history of science has shown us that deferring to a supernatural power to explain anything that isn’t completely understood in the present time is a terrible idea. The scientific method explains new things every day and has debunked countless ideas once attributed to deities. To date, there is not one single verifiable supernatural explanation for anything.
It’s much better to have a little patience and accept that we may not get all the answers for the Universe today, or in your lifetime, or even at all.
Cows standing in a pasture getting drenched by rain don’t know why they’re getting wet, but there’s still a natural explanation for it even though the cows are incapable of understanding it. Similarly, there are things we may never understand, especially now in our technological infancy.
3. I have never understood how creationists explain the introduction of species into the world. 99.9% of all species that have existed are extinct. Horses didn’t exist 65 million years ago, and T-Rexes don’t exist today. What’s the explanation for that? Has the Creator periodically introduced mature new species out of thin air like a farmer might stock a fish pond? Should we expect herds of a new species of megafauna to possibly show up at any moment? Or were all species created together at some point in the past (perhaps just a few thousand years ago) and modern mammals (including man) competed with dinosaurs and many other prehistoric species?
Posted on 5/21/22 at 7:54 am to Jack Carter
quote:
This question assumes God is bound by time. Our universe is bound by time as time only began at the “Big Bang”. If there is a multiverse it would also bound by time. A creator of space/time would not require another creator for its existence.
Nothing is “bound by time” because time is an illusion. It’s a human construct that we use to measure change.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 8:17 am to Jack Carter
quote:
Our universe is bound by time
Of course, the simulation runs on a computer and it has a clock speed limit.
This is exactly what you would expect.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 8:17 am to Azkiger
quote:
And that intelligent designer could have been the product of natural evolution
Humans are intelligent designers that are a product of evolution. We design increasingly complex machines constantly. Artificial intelligence will result from our efforts.
Ultimately it will become sentient and think and reason on its own. We will have designed our successor species, one that will traverse space. It’s the next big thing in evolution.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 8:47 am to Kentucker
quote:Any measurable interval is determined/bounded by its measured limits.
Nothing is “bound by time”
His contention is singularity, the moment of the big bang, would mark the beginning of our universe. By tracking distance, direction, and velocity of elements emanating from the event, we can derive time our universe has existed.
Time, distance, space-volume are measurable dimensions in physics. Which is real? Which is illusion?
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:04 am to Globetrotter747
quote:That is not quite true is it.
ID does not belong in science because it cannot be tested or falsified.
(1) The fact science has not yet found a way to conduct the experiment in no way shape or form excuses us from seeking to do so.
(2) As stated earlier, refusal to even contemplate the as of yet unexplainable creates an inertia of ignorance.
(3) In the meantime, god-of-the-gaps keeps us all working harder within science for better answers.
quote:Either you are mixing metaphors or don't understand what ID contends.
I have never understood how creationists explain the introduction of species into the world.
This post was edited on 5/21/22 at 9:05 am
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:11 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Any measurable interval is determined/bounded by its measured limits.
Change is movement. Time is one of our measures of that movement.
quote:
His contention is singularity, the moment of the big bang, would mark the beginning of our universe.
A singularity is a point of infinity, indicating a breakdown in the maths used to define something.
There was as much a “point in time” preceding the point of inflation (Big Bang) as there was post inflation.
quote:.
By tracking distance, direction, and velocity of elements emanating from the event, we can derive time our universe has existed.
This is the conventional thought based upon what we currently know.
quote:
Time, distance, space-volume are measurable dimensions in physics. Which is real? Which is illusion?
Distance and volume are parameters defining an object’s physical relationship to everything else. Time is an abstract mental measure we use to apply a definition of existence to an object, contrasted with a set of time measures we have set as a civilization. It would be different for every alien civilization.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:23 am to Azkiger
quote:
And creationists wonder why the general consensus within the scientific community is to no longer try and hold debates and just ignore them.
Dishonest nitwits, the vast majority of them.
HA! oh, the irony.
PLEASE help me understand your Muh-Big Bang "Science" Communitah's belief that NOTHING created Everything + Infinity PLUS Order, Intricacy, and Design.
Thanks.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:31 am to MNCTigah
quote:
[b]I don't reject factual evidences.
There's a dearth of DNA and phylogenomic evidence in support thereof. Common ancestry reveals genetic evidence that we are descendants of Pan Paniscus (bonobos) and Pan Troglodytes (chimpanzees). Bonobos and chimps share 99.6% of their DNA with humans.
"Factual evidences" are interesting, don't you think?
So exactly when (and HOW) did Slugs and Bananas "Split" from their "ancestors" of Bonobos and Chimps?
How Much DNA Do Humans Share With Other Animals and Plants? (sample)
Cat 90%
Mouse 85%
Dog 84%
Cow 80%
Slug 70%
Banana 60%
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:39 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
(3) In the meantime, god-of-the-gaps keeps us all working harder within science for better answers.
The gap criticism is legitimate; we should always look for answers.
But that’s a 2-way street. Just assuming that random mutation plus natural selection is a sufficient answer when we can’t intelligently link the various iterations isn’t science. It’s “chance-of-the-gaps” instead of God of the gaps.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:42 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
This ^^^^ (Psalm 19:1-4 declares, “The heavens declare the glory of God) either infuriates or scares agnostics and atheists……knowing you’re going to have to answer to a higher authority for the life you lived is pretty serious stuff.
Imagine shaking your fist at God or denying His existence…. and then one day, you take your last breath and the lights didn’t exactly go out like you had hoped or believed. Wow!
Blows my mind too, bro. I don't get the mentality.
Here on this mortal coil, the Free Will the Lord has given all enables man to shake fists at God and deny His supernatural Existence, Account of Creation, and...Judgement.
How the thought of having to answer to The Almighty one day and facing eternal judgement NOT fazing them so much....I don't whether it's just willful ignorance, hardened hearts, or stubborn ego.
Once those lights go out and God's verdict is IN, these same folks who deny Him shall be shaking their fists and cursing The Almighty in a most unpleasant realm ...Forever.
Posted on 5/21/22 at 9:42 am to DreauxB2015
quote:
from nothing exploded and made everything . Nothing intelligent about any of it
There is only one rational disputation of Intelligent Design.
And that is to assume that the 'universe' has always existed and every possible arrangement of every subparticle therein is taking place, meaning that everything that can mathematically happen will happen at least once, and we are living in one of those infinite possibilities.
Either that or we have recognize that only God (or any other title you want to attribute to the Intelligent Designer) set this in motion with the only concept that can never be scientifically defined ==== and that is the Conscience = or call it the Soul = or call it anything you want. It is our gift from God, absent in all other forms of life.
I have always believed that the Genesis description of creation is a remarkably accurate description of the "big bang" = in rhetoric that could be absorbed/retold by people 25,000 years ago.
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