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Started By
Message
re: The Kansas voting totals just don’t add up
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:16 am to AggieHank86
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:16 am to AggieHank86
quote:
This is probably unfair. Primaries are run differently in every state, and I candidly have never heard of a state that votes on statewide ballot initiatives in the primaries rather than the general election. If I had not "read-up" on Kansas procedure, I would probably be confused as well because this setup is the complete opposite of my state in almost every way.
You should know how the elections in your state work. And when you hear that Texas has an open primary, I'd think you'd want to know what that means. I'd also think you'd want to know what that doesn't mean.
More directly, if you're going to come here and spout off shite about fraud in a particular state, you should absolutely know what you're talking about which would include an understanding of how elections work in that state.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:19 am to prattalumni
You pretty much covered the problems.
1. Turnout was very high. I spoke to my very suburban poll worker while waiting and he said it was by far the highest turnout he has ever seen. Lots of independents.
2. Both sides lied about what the effects of a yes or no vote would be. Libs we’re saying that a yes vote would guarantee a complete ban including for rape and incest. Conservatives were claiming that abortion was completely unregulated in Kansas and a no vote would open the door to third trimester abortions, which are already illegal. Pretty much everyone was lying about the effects of passage or non-passage and the primary media outlets did what they usually do and only expose the conservative lies.
3. The constitutional change was unclearly written and many were confused by the wording. Even worse, Republicans were vague on what their end goal was if it were to pass. This allowed Dems to say Kansas would end up with the most restrictive abortion law in the nation. I think most realists understand that allowing that to be presented as the likely resolution to the process is a death knell. If the Republicans would have presented a range of options and assured Kansas citizens that there would be a vigorous debate by their elected representatives I think things would have been at least a bit closer. I think it’s pretty well documented that complete bans aren’t in line with what voters will accept though many would be happy to see the current 22 week ban lowered.
It was pretty much a shite show all around. And yes, Kansas is a weird place where Republicans often overplay their hand.
1. Turnout was very high. I spoke to my very suburban poll worker while waiting and he said it was by far the highest turnout he has ever seen. Lots of independents.
2. Both sides lied about what the effects of a yes or no vote would be. Libs we’re saying that a yes vote would guarantee a complete ban including for rape and incest. Conservatives were claiming that abortion was completely unregulated in Kansas and a no vote would open the door to third trimester abortions, which are already illegal. Pretty much everyone was lying about the effects of passage or non-passage and the primary media outlets did what they usually do and only expose the conservative lies.
3. The constitutional change was unclearly written and many were confused by the wording. Even worse, Republicans were vague on what their end goal was if it were to pass. This allowed Dems to say Kansas would end up with the most restrictive abortion law in the nation. I think most realists understand that allowing that to be presented as the likely resolution to the process is a death knell. If the Republicans would have presented a range of options and assured Kansas citizens that there would be a vigorous debate by their elected representatives I think things would have been at least a bit closer. I think it’s pretty well documented that complete bans aren’t in line with what voters will accept though many would be happy to see the current 22 week ban lowered.
It was pretty much a shite show all around. And yes, Kansas is a weird place where Republicans often overplay their hand.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:22 am to AUTiger1978
quote:
Conservatives were claiming that abortion was completely unregulated in Kansas and a no vote would open the door to third trimester abortions, which are already illegal.
What is legal and illegal is of only minor concern in Kansas. Third trimester abortions are advertised openly in Kansas. Tiller performed thousands upon thousands of them before he was assassinated.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:30 am to the808bass
quote:I know less that perhaps I should about Kansas abortion law and about Dr. Tiller. Please correct me, if my understanding is wrong.
Third trimester abortions are advertised openly in Kansas. Tiller performed thousands upon thousands of them before he was assassinated.
Kansas limits "elective abortion" to 22-weeks, but allows abortion after that date in cases that fall within enumerated exceptions to the 22-week rule. Dr. Tiller was one of the few physicians who was willing to provide the service in cases governed by those exceptions, and he made that willingness known. Some abortion activists also claim that he was providing abortion services after 22-weeks, even in cases where the legal exceptions did not apply.
Is that close to correct?
This post was edited on 8/3/22 at 10:36 am
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:31 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Do you have to be a registered party member to vote in a party's primary? Could be they had unaffiliated people who could only vote for statewide ballot issues and couldn't vote in the D or R primaries. That wouldn't be the case in Alabama, but I don't know how Kansas works so I'm just throwing it out there.
That is correct, not everyone could vote in the primaries but they could vote in the statewide ballot issues like abortion rights
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:35 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Some abortion activists also claim that he was providing abortion services after 22-weeks, even in cases where the legal exceptions did not apply.
It’s not just that they claim that. It’s pretty well documented.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:39 am to the808bass
quote:I ran a couple of searches and did not find anything addressing this point. Perhaps it is found on a site that Google's algorithm is hiding from me. Can you provide a link?
Some abortion activists also claim that he was providing abortion services after 22-weeks, even in cases where the legal exceptions did not apply.quote:
It’s not just that they claim that. It’s pretty well documented.
But other than that quibble, was my summary of the abortion environment in Kansas fairly accurate?
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:41 am to AggieHank86
There are more unaffiliated voters (no party) in Kansas than registered Democrats. They cannot vote in primaries BUT they could vote yesterday only on the referendum. Repubs assumed the unaffiliated just would not vote as usual, but they did vote and they voted NO.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:43 am to ShinerHorns
This was bigly rigged and everyone knows it. It's what they do, and we're the only ones who care about the rules.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:44 am to ShinerHorns
You really are a dumbass.
It happens all the time. Sometimes people just think voting for a principle is more important than voting for politicians.
It happens all the time. Sometimes people just think voting for a principle is more important than voting for politicians.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:45 am to Bulldogblitz
quote:B T K
Who knew Kansas folks enjoy killing?
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:46 am to ShinerHorns
The obvious conclusion is that voters were interested in the abortion referendum and cared less about the governor's or Senate races, or...were less focused on the candidates than that life-dependent referendum decision.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:48 am to tarzana
quote:
The obvious conclusion is that voters were interested in the abortion referendum and cared less about the governor's or Senate races, or
no
independent voters could not vote in party primaries but they came out to vote on one issue referendum to stop the R party legislature from ending abortion.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:51 am to AggieHank86
quote:
But other than that quibble, was my summary of the abortion environment in Kansas fairly accurate?
Yes. And the abortion industry is well-protected by the state judiciary.
quote:
Can you provide a link?
LINK
It’s an “Operation Rescue” link. But it’s simply the archived document of Tiller’s go-to second physician when she lost her medical license.
Facts start on page 11.
“Finding of Fact”
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:51 am to CelticDog
quote:
independent voters could not vote in party primaries
Sure they could.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:54 am to CamdenTiger
quote:
but the wording of that issue was terrible. They used wording to confuse the issue
My favorite is the Multi Negative wording:
Do you reject the addition of a ban to the proposal of eliminating the continuance of the tax postponement?
Yes
No
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:57 am to CelticDog
quote:
independent voters could not vote in party primaries
So it's easily explainable by normal voting practice, and in no way suggests any sort of frickery, as is implied in the OP
Posted on 8/3/22 at 10:58 am to CamdenTiger
Then people should learn to read better.
Posted on 8/3/22 at 11:00 am to the808bass
quote:I don't care where a document is stored. It seems to clearly be a copy of an official document.
It’s an “Operation Rescue” link. But it’s simply the archived document of Tiller’s go-to second physician when she lost her medical license.
I skimmed, but did not really "analyze," the document. My VERY quick review seems to indicate that Dr. Neuhaus was referring patients to Dr. Tiller for abortions under the "post 22-week exceptions," but that she was not adequately confirming and/or documenting the applicability of those exceptions.
Is that accurate?
Posted on 8/3/22 at 11:02 am to ShinerHorns
quote:
Am I really supposed to believe that somehow roughly 180,000 or so people only showed up to vote on one thing? Yeah right. Dominion strikes again.
Combine a lot of white suburban women, Facebook, and a shitty amendment? I can easily see it, especially if they are frustrated with Repubs for putting it on the ballot but frustrated with the Dems for the economy.
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