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Started By
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re: Teen who was arrested for reading the Bible in Wisconsin speaks at council meeting.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:50 am to AggieHank86
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:50 am to AggieHank86
quote:If you want to engage in debate, often times you have to do research that covers the points others would make, too. If you care enough about persuading others with having solid arguments, “do your own research” isn’t generally going to cut it, especially when you’ve already done research (hunting down the statute) to further your own argument. It comes across as either being selectively lazy or having a weakness in your own position that you aren’t willing to defend.
I linked the ordinance. Do your own damned research
In particular to this issue, a noise ordinance that doesn’t define a standard for what constitutes a violation is problematic as it can make enforcement subjective and inconsistent. That’s why many noise ordinances provide decibel levels or distances. Leaving enforcement up to the word “reasonable” makes it hard for both sides to defend their positions.
1
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:50 am to Azkiger
Oh here we go
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:51 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Wait until you find out how much of all law is based on ‘reasonable’.
I'm not sure I want cops deciding "reasonable."
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:52 am to Azkiger
How is it incorrect?
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:53 am to FooManChoo
quote:
a noise ordinance that doesn’t define a standard for what constitutes a violation is problematic
Precisely. Its an interpretation of the law.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 8:53 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Your issue should be with the legislators, not the cops.
Use this opportunity to level up your civil game.
Will you say this same thing when the boys in blue start gun confiscation? They could have handled it completely different, but they initiated the escalation when they immediately grabbed the micro phone instead of talking it out.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:18 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
True, but unless it is directly tied to an actual (MEASURABLE) decibel level, then I would defend his right to do so.
Here is a link to the ordinance LINK
I dont see anything about a decibel level.It does mention a loud speaker or public address system from a vehicle.
It seems like they need to tighten up their code.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:23 am to AggieHank86
quote:
If you can point me to someone else who was on site at the same time, also using a loudspeaker, but not reading from the Bible, who was not arrested, I might well change my view.
bullshite.
You're not changing your view on this for any reason or any amount of evidence.
Again, the ordinance is not violated simply by virtue of using a loudspeaker. It has to be amplifying the sound to a level that a reasonable person with normal sensibilities would find disturbing or annoying.
If the kid's sound was to that level—again and again and again and again—why can I hear people talking all around that speaker at the same time the kid was speaking over a cell phone microphone?
The ordinance was an excuse to tote water for the gays. You know it and I know it.
The cops were attempting to avoid conflict and the ordinance was a convenient way for them to accomplish that goal. They didn't charge the kid because they knew they'd lose that challenge.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:25 am to Mike da Tigah
If he was a left-winger making noise to prevent an opposing viewpoint to be heard, there would be no consequences.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:25 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Wait until you find out how much of all law is based on ‘reasonable’.
I hear ya, despite the “noise.”
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:28 am to blueridgeTiger
quote:
If he was a left-winger making noise to prevent an opposing viewpoint to be heard, there would be no consequences.
Meanwhile, people attempting to get a meal..
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:31 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
It seems like they need to tighten up their code.
I agree.
It is a shite ordinance that can be weaponized as a result of its ambiguity.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:32 am to wackatimesthree
quote:I could not understand a word being said by anyone while the kid was talking on the sound system. After he stopped, you could hear the guy who was filming on his camera phone, obviously.
If the kid's sound was to that level—again and again and again and again—why can I hear people talking all around that speaker at the same time the kid was speaking over a cell phone microphone?
But let's say arguendo that you are correct and that you could understand someone else talking nearby.
Are you saying that something is not unreasonably loud, just because it does not completely drown-out all other sound in the vicinity?
quote:The ordinance is decades old. It long pre-dates these drag events.
The ordinance was an excuse to tote water for the gays.
quote:Probably so. Is preventing conflict and/or violence not part of the duty of a "peace officer?"
The cops were attempting to avoid conflict and the ordinance was a convenient way for them to accomplish that goal.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:34 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
The cops were attempting to avoid conflict and the ordinance was a convenient way for them to accomplish that goal. They didn't charge the kid because they knew they'd lose that challenge.
This has become the norm, and Hank supports it.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Did ANYONE here defend that behavior?
Meanwhile, people attempting to get a meal..
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:35 am to AggieHank86
quote:
But I disagree rather strongly with his assertion that he was arrested only because he was reading from the Bible
Drag queens marching in the street screaming they’re coming for your children? Not arrested
People screaming no justice no peace and stopping traffic? Not arrested
People screaming frick Trump in DC? Not arrested
Masked lunatics screaming at people anywhere from a restaurant to church? Not arrested.
Some kid reading the Bible? Arrested
Your argument falls flat on its face and you’re a fork tongued hypocrite.
Selective enforcement of the law is wrong. Political persecution of a selected group because of their beliefs is terribly wrong. You support both because you’re an “intellectual moderate.”
You wholly embody “I did not speak up because they did not come for me”. I wish people would stop engaging you on this board but you give such great insight into the mind of the apathetic intellectual moderate happy to watch the country burn down while you debate the nuances of what constitutes purposeful arson vs controlled burn that got out of control.
This post was edited on 8/4/23 at 9:42 am
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:39 am to Mike da Tigah
Normal Society: "Transgender men twerking on, or in front of, children is not normal and called grooming."
Democrats: "Why do you hate Gay people?"
Democrats: "Why do you hate Gay people?"
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:39 am to Nguyener
quote:Show us the applicable ordinances in the jurisdiction where each of these events occurred. I suspect that you are comparing apples to brussels sprouts.
Drag queens marching in the street screaming they’re coming for your children? Not arrested
People screaming no justice no peace and stopping traffic? Not arrested
People screaming frick Trump in DC? Not arrested .
Masked lunatics screaming at people anywhere from a restaurant to church? Not arrested.
I also suspect that cops in some of those jurisdictions did not vigorously enforce the law. For that, we fault Wisconsin cops who DID?
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:39 am to AggieHank86
It’s to the point where I see your name and scroll right on by. You just love to argue.
Posted on 8/4/23 at 9:40 am to Bridget O
quote:It beats grunting "ditto."
You just love to argue.
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