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Started By
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re: SHOCKER! LTC Vindman is a dim Partisan w/ Hx of Shittalking America While On Duty
Posted on 11/2/19 at 8:48 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Posted on 11/2/19 at 8:48 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
I had a fellow platoon leader openly brag about making a sex tape with an OBC classmate and blackmail her with it,
What branch are you / were you?
1
Posted on 11/2/19 at 8:49 pm to OleWar
Those or he could have been a foreign area officer.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 9:21 pm to Champagne
If you are going to give a GOMR you are going to have substantial documentation of misconduct. First, because it will be part of the process of whether the GOMR will be locally or permanently filed. Secondly, if permanently filed it will be part of a show cause board for the officer.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 9:23 pm to Wolfhound45
Not only that, but to appeal a GOMOR is nearly impossible. In the instances when it is successfully appealed, separation procedures are already complete. A vindictive GO can ruin a career with one page.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 9:49 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
substantial documentation of misconduct.
Yes, but witness sworn written statements of the misconduct would be substantial enough to support some disciplinary action, right?
Posted on 11/2/19 at 10:04 pm to Champagne
quote:
Yes, but witness sworn written statements of the misconduct would be substantial enough to support some disciplinary action, right?
Without a 15-6, getting sworn statements isn't legal.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 10:35 pm to Wolfhound45
Here is my question for you and CGSC Lobotomy, Wolf. You have been a Commander. CGSC has knowledge of these matters, maybe he's also been a commander.
The situation is that you are the commander/manager/ supervisor of Vindman. One of his peers privately comes to your office and relates to you what Vindman said and did.
Let's say that YOUR supervisor calls you into HIS office. He says to you, "I heard that one of your people [he relates the gist of what Vindman did and said], have you any plans to respond to this info that we've received?"
What do you do now? Given all of the difficulties and legalities that both you, Wolf, and CGCS have explained, What do you do? How do you answer your Boss's question?
The situation is that you are the commander/manager/ supervisor of Vindman. One of his peers privately comes to your office and relates to you what Vindman said and did.
Let's say that YOUR supervisor calls you into HIS office. He says to you, "I heard that one of your people [he relates the gist of what Vindman did and said], have you any plans to respond to this info that we've received?"
What do you do now? Given all of the difficulties and legalities that both you, Wolf, and CGCS have explained, What do you do? How do you answer your Boss's question?
Posted on 11/2/19 at 10:48 pm to Champagne
There's no set standard. However, to correct behavior you go through the following channels in order.
1. Confront individual
2. Immediate supervisor
3. Senior commander if #2 fails
4. Legal/IG channels
1. Confront individual
2. Immediate supervisor
3. Senior commander if #2 fails
4. Legal/IG channels
Posted on 11/3/19 at 4:56 am to SirWinston
Ukraine is a giant corrupt money laundering operation for Soros and the Dems. The Russians need to invade it and take it over.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 6:27 am to Champagne
I was only a company commander not a big shot like Wolf, but in the instance you outlined my first call would be to the BJA. If you even think there’s a possibility of misconduct or illegalities then they will say to read him / her a DA Form 3881 which is the same as reading someone their Miranda rights in the civilian world. At that point you would conduct an informal Commander’s inquiry as per chapter 4, AR 15-6.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 7:19 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Sounds like Vindman is a FAO
He was
Posted on 11/3/19 at 7:20 am to Champagne
quote:Be careful of undue command influence. Your senior leader cannot guide you to an outcome. Your boss can remand the decision to his or her level, but they cannot direct how you respond.
How do you answer your Boss's question?
Posted on 11/3/19 at 1:31 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Your boss can remand the decision to his or her level, but they cannot direct how you respond.
There was nothing in the way that I phrased the scenario that would indicate that I'm telling you how I want you to punish the individual. I carefully phrased it to avoid that insinuation. Did you get the impression that you are being "Commander Influenced" just because you are asked by your Boss whether you have any plans to respond to the info? I think that a higher level Commander is allowed to ask a subordinate commander whether that lower level commander has any intent to investigate or otherwise respond to info that might be a report of misconduct.
In any event, I can see now from all of the input that, when thinking about how to respond to info of this nature regarding a Field Grade Officer, it's very different than dealing with negative info at, say, a company level dealing with Enlisted folks. When dealing with Officers, it's best to kick things off by appointing an Investigating Officer in accordance with AR 15-6. By doing this, the Officer under investigation will have plenty of opportunity to "have his say" in response to the reports of misconduct.
You guys are all correct -- it's big deal and it should be treated like it is a big deal -- be careful with your process and make sure that you do everything right. It's a lot of trouble, and. too often, Commanders will ignore some Officer misconduct of this nature due to the complexity and time-consuming nature of the process.
These kinds of Officer misconduct cases are complex and time-consuming to deal with.
I guess the easiest way to deal with someone like a Vindman is for the Senior Rater to rate Vindman towards the lower section of the Senior Rater Profile, so that the OER needn't be Referred.
I've been away from this stuff for a bit over 5 years now. It's been kind of fun revisiting all of this stuff that I used to deal with regularly. I can tell that I'm starting to forget some of the important details.
And to all of you folks who are still dealing with this kind of stuff in your jobs -- GOOD LUCK !
This post was edited on 11/3/19 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 11/3/19 at 1:33 pm to Champagne
quote:Chief of Staff of a two star command.
It's been kind of fun revisiting all of this stuff that I used to deal with regularly.
Each and every day baw.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 1:33 pm to PhDoogan
Posted on 11/3/19 at 1:33 pm to PhDoogan
Rush had this on Fri. I guess he was right.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 1:38 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Your senior leader is not supposed to guide you to an outcome.
Fixed.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 2:06 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:Have you noticed that someone is still showing up in Global...
CGSC Lobotomy
Posted on 11/3/19 at 2:20 pm to Wolfhound45
Hmm... interesting.
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