re: Self-esteem & the “Crisis of the Young”

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Backer talked about how, in their total dependency, kids experience ultimate freedom.

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Which is absurd on it's face. Right? It is a man wanting to impress himself with his own sophistry.

Kids have only the freedom their guardians and peers grant, regardless of Becker's presumed perception.

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Maybe we could relive our childhood freedom

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A term for that is "immaturity."

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Grandparents on my mother's side were Volga Germans that had to escape the Bolsheviks (for America) but didn't do so until after losing a child to starvation. They lost another child on the long "road" to America. They had 11 kids total. My grandpa laid rail in the Dakotas until his back gave up on him. My uncles and aunts ran the gamut - most rose from their beginnings and found success/greater wealth, a few struggled their whole life economically and with alcohol. I think it's a fairly common story for late 19th century/early 20th century immigrants.

One thing the whole family had, however, was a deep appreciation for America and what it meant to be a citizen. To my grandpa, bringing the family to America was his greatest accomplishment and he was forever grateful. He struggled with English, struggled physically an unskilled laborer, struggled to make ends meet - but that dude would have starved himself before taking anything being offered by the government in the way of assistance.

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Hard times build great men.

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As my family has talked about "us" and remembered our history, I've got to say that which generation (as in silent, boomer, etc) everyone fit in never came up. It was only when I started participating in these threads (2020/Covid) that I saw so much made of generations. I always considered it more a family evolution thing - like for my family - my grandparents sacrificed a lot to became Americans, which made it better/easier for their kids, and the next generation of kids (mine) had it better/easier, and the next generation (my kids) had it better/easier.

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I agree that it varies with families, conservative families will pass down family values longer than liberal ones.
But to that point, the North East has been a hotbed of liberalism since long before Woodstock.

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That's why it's fascinating to see so many young people complaining about their lot in life. It's hard to argue, if you're being factual/realistic, that life doesn't get better and easier over time for Americans and it's odd (to me) that so many will do somersaults in logic to feel aggrieved.

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Agreed, my uncle lives in government housing where his life is basically paid for (SSDI/SSI) and he can do anything he wants (He's in his mid 70s).
He never got married, never held a job for long, and still thinks "Reagan was terrible".

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If the poorest Americans lived in 3,000 ft2 homes, drove their choice of vehicle under $60K (one for each adult), was able to eat out (nice dinner) twice per week and could comfortably afford to take one 2-wk vacation per year to anywhere in the world, and everybody above them on the economic ladder lived better and better the further up you go - those folks in the 3,000 ft2 homes would still be our "poor".

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This actually speaks to one of Becker’s premises: humans spend their lives chasing self-esteem and convincing themselves they are special and their lives matter.

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This actually speaks to one of Becker’s premises: humans spend their lives chasing self-esteem and convincing themselves they are special and their lives matter.

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He found out he was dying while writing the book so I’m sure that colored the experience for him. I wonder if his imminent demise gave him permission to be extra-provocative.

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If you read it at 19 it comes off very different than 2 decades plus later lol.

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when I pick up books I enjoyed in my late teens/early 20s, I’m horrified at my absence of taste.

Desiring a Life free from strife isn’t exactly synonymous with immaturity.

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My toddler has no inhibitions, no insecurities, no anxiety.

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First of all, that's not true. Toddlers have all kinds of anxiety, starting with separation anxiety. They fear the dark, they have anxiety about changes in routine (over which they have no autonomy or control), medical visits, strangers, etc.

Even if what you said was true, he also doesn't choose when he gets up, whether he brushes his teeth or not, what he eats for lunch, who he interacts with, where he goes, whether he gets a haircut or not or if he does, what kind, he doesn't choose his clothes, his food, his shoes, his living arrangements, what he spends his days and nights doing, or when he goes to bed. He doesn't control who he has to interact with or who interacts with him.

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Adult have only the freedom their guardians grant

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And in the United States, that's a hell of a lot of freedom.

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And adults have to pay bills. Who is more free?

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Adults, and it's not close.

Stop it with this nonsense, will you? We've already been over this. You are equating responsibility with lack of freedom. Responsibility is the price of freedom, not the opposite of freedom.

Children have almost no freedom specifically because they lack the capacity for responsibility.

There's a lot of hippie diluted Marxist inspired bullshite from the early 70s that is frankly embarrassing to dredge up and realize that anyone took it seriously back then. What you are reading is obviously part of that genre.

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4cubbies

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4chubbies???

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My toddler has no inhibitions, no insecurities, no anxiety.

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That really isn't true, is it? E.g., What does your munchkin think about going to the doctor? Stranger danger? Being alone? Bad dreams?

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Who is more free?

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Adults, obviously. But they carry with it an associated understanding of responsibility, and of mortality.