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re: Reasons why Texas power grid failed:

Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:19 am to
Posted by Cracker
in a box
Member since Nov 2009
19100 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:19 am to
quote:

West Texas had wind turbines that had to be de-iced. The little energy that power regulators planned on being supplied from wind was now gone.

If they worked how much loss of power in from west Texas to east Texas does it even make sense 15-20%??

quote:

Nuclear also got too cold

How the hell does anything freeze in a damn nuclear power plant?

quote:

We don’t have enough Natural Gas online
I have read this but do you think since the massive private land ownership in Texas right of way eminent domain bs & lack of developers using natural gas and paying for & building a infrastructure and the lack of NG at the curb? So they just stick propane tanks in the ground? People cook with NG a you have plenty of it. Boom Pickens is probably bitching and telling everyone I told you so. This seems like quite the quandary. Redundancy is important two sources are one one source is none.
Posted by TOSOV
Member since Jan 2016
8922 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:26 am to
quote:

quote:
This has to be a setback for the Texit movement. "It's fine guys we can handle everything by ourselves" *Lights go out*


No, it isn’t. It’s a spur. We can do a lot better job managing this shite ourselves without the rest of you dead weight motherfrickers getting in our way. Same with the border.


I agree. I think this actually may be good timing. Seeing inefficiencies to fix before TEXIT, if it happens.

Need to know if Bills to update the grid was set aside to push windmills/solar investment. Environmental restrictions, plants not being built so depending on old ones that went offline, etc.

Time is right to get this figured out.
Posted by fwtex
Member since Nov 2019
3258 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:31 am to
quote:

TX having it's own grid goes back to the 30s irrc. Ercot was created in 60s/70s maybe? So this isn't new or something quick to change. People are just now hearing about. Most Texans have known this since birth as it's connected to the "if we have to secede we have our own grid, so that's a major plus". So yes it's connected to the age old Texan want to have that out. So yes it's been atop convos at the moment with the TEXIT.


The liberals will go all out pushing Texas to no longer be Texas and sadly with so much new growth it may work for them.

Texas having its own grid works well but the problem is that lazy, money eyed politicians were arrogant and dumb. The grid is supposed to be setup so that regions could be self sufficient and send excess to other regions when needed. They got away from that with ERCOT centralized control.

Its just like the federal government. The more power you give one central power the more reliance everyone has to be to that power. When that one centralized power makes a mistake the mistake is catastrophic.
Posted by TOSOV
Member since Jan 2016
8922 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:38 am to
quote:

Boone Pickens is probably bitching and telling everyone I told you so.


Are you hearing him from heaven or hell?

Not sure what Pickens would be saying "I told you to" too right now, but he was a big windmill guy, so he better be looking at them 3 fingers pointing back him, from wherever he is bitching from.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
86071 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:42 am to
It's really obnoxious how our culture/society simply disregards extraordinary events to place blame.

I pay for power in Georgia on the basis of Georgia-like weather with some margin for swings and rare events. If we have 5 days of historic-low temperatures and once-a-decade winter precipitation I have no expectation of anything working correctly and that's not the fault of industry or government.

Posted by Roll Tide Ravens
Birmingham, AL
Member since Nov 2015
50996 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:44 am to
#1 reason: A major ice storm that is going to hurt any grid that uses above ground power lines, above ground transmission lines, above ground stations/substations, etc.

Ice storms are just different than a pure snow storm/blizzard, and are well-known to be much more catastrophic.
This post was edited on 2/17/21 at 9:45 am
Posted by 3nOut
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Jan 2013
31817 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:46 am to
quote:

The economic decision was not to put the 1 in a 1000 measures to prepare for this. Smart business decision.



While there are failures and plenty of blame to around on this, people trying to make it a left and right issue is where we’ve gotten in the last 10 years of politics.

Green energy is to blame, deregulation is to name, cutting costs is to blame, ERCOT is to blame, republicans letting this stuff go unchecked is to blame, and most of all, a 100 year storm is to blame (I was alive in 83, 89, and 2011... none of those compare to this year.)

I know that a storm like this is possible but I haven’t bought a generator, built in a gas fireplace, and a host of other options that could have kept my family warmer during this.

Afterwards, I’m not sure that I will to be honest. What’s the cost of planning for something that may not happen again in my life time? I may make some changes but like ERCOT, how much do you sink into a fixing a problem that may never materialize for another 40 years.
Posted by Cossatotjoe
Member since Oct 2020
938 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:49 am to
quote:


#1 reason: A major ice storm that is going to hurt any grid that uses above ground power lines, above ground transmission lines, above ground stations/substations, etc.

Ice storms are just different than a pure snow storm/blizzard, and are well-known to be much more catastrophic.


That’s the point. It isn’t an ice storm. It’s snow, almost all snow...or at least it was the other day. And yet, we have rolling blackouts.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26937 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:49 am to
quote:

It's really obnoxious how our culture/society simply disregards extraordinary events to place blame.


It's steeped into our culture. If something bad happens, somebody is always at fault. I don't know if the slip & fall industry is a cause or effect (I suspect a little of both), but it's a prime example. Anybody could make a power grid that won't fail regardless of extreme weather events, but you won't like what you pay per kWh.
Posted by back9Tiger
Island Coconut Salesman
Member since Nov 2005
17633 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 9:59 am to
Liberals always play the blame game and get ahead of a crisis so no one can point the finger at their failures....hypocrisy at its worst.

This was more ice than anything and the gulf south is not built for that. Just like the north has major issues with prolonged heat over 95 degrees.

At the end of the day, we'll all have some historic event that is an outlier. ERCOT and Texas won't make some wholesale change for something that we may never see again in our life time.

The good side for the TEXIT folks is now you see what you have and can tweak things.
Posted by Ailsa
Member since May 2020
3576 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 10:03 am to
quote:
Tri Global Energy, a leading U.S. originator and developer of utility-scale renewable energy projects, today announced that Texas Gov. Greg Abbott is a recipient of the Tri Global Energy Wind Leadership Award. The annual award recognizes commitment to wind development and to the people who rely on wind projects to support their families and communities.

https://www.finanzen.net/nachricht/aktien/texas-gov-greg-abbott-receives-tri-global-energy-s-wind-leadership-award-9792957

is he in chyna's pocket?

https://foxsanantonio.com/news/yami-investigates/chinese-wind-farm-in-texas-its-the-greatest-national-security-concern-said-hurd
Posted by Cossatotjoe
Member since Oct 2020
938 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 10:07 am to
That great big ginormous coal fired power plant that used to sit 60 miles down the road from me would be handy right now. Of course, it got closed a few years ago because “muh wind power”.
Posted by deuceiswild
South La
Member since Nov 2007
4561 posts
Posted on 2/17/21 at 10:27 am to
Current nuclear plants have anywhere from 25 to 40 years worth of waste on their sites right now. And room for decades more. And you’d be amazed at how small a footprint that spent fuel covers.
Posted by Ailsa
Member since May 2020
3576 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 5:36 pm to
quote:

If you or anyone in your family were left to freeze in the dark for the last 2-3 days, SIGN AND SHARE THIS.

Somebody must be held responsible for this sudden emergency we were all unexpectedly forced to endure.

Now, they are trying to permanently raise our electric bills to cover for the cost of “lost power” — WE should not have to hold the bag for monopolies like ERCOT who hide behind private company clauses to avoid federal regulation. OUR taxpayer money should NOT be used to bailout billion dollar corporations who choose to line their pockets while we freeze & while people die.

https://www.change.org/p/greg-abbott-ercot-oncor-must-be-held-accountable
Posted by cajunandy
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2015
868 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 6:30 pm to
quote:

So when is Vogtle coming on line?

Vogtle 3 is scheduled to come on line November 2021, Vogtle 4 November 2022.

quote:

Think Georgia power can complete a nuclear plant
Kind of difficult to complete any construction project when the General Contractor(Westinghouse) files for bankruptcy in the middle of the project.
Posted by roadtrash77
where the oil spurts
Member since Jan 2021
74 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 6:40 pm to
I really wish people would let go of the wind thing. Yes it’s fickle and only exists because of subsidies. It was also only supposed to account for 7% of supply. NatGas/Coal makes up the vast, vast majority of generation in the winter.

The NatGas pump stations and hubs weren’t winterized like it was suggested after the 2011 winter storm. Why? Because it costs money and regulations are the devil.

OSHA is a pain in the arse but every single section is written in blood. Regulations suck but having the “energy capital of the world” go completely dark sucks even more.
Posted by roadtrash77
where the oil spurts
Member since Jan 2021
74 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 6:45 pm to
FYI last “generational” winter storm to knock out Texas’ grid was a decade ago.

The new Entergy cogen in lake charles - 20 minutes from the tejas border - is winterized because it’s tied to the national grid. Regulations are a pain in the head and the wallet but they save lives.
Posted by GoldenGuy
Member since Oct 2015
12747 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Also, Texas infrastructure isn’t designed for once-in-a-century freezes.

#1 - Frozen Wind Turbines:

West Texas had wind turbines that had to be de-iced. The little energy that power regulators planned on being supplied from wind was now gone.

We have almost 31GW of wind installed on the grid, but on Monday we couldn’t even depend on 6 GW working.

To make matters worse, existing storage of wind energy in batteries was also gone, because batteries were losing 60% of their energy in the cold.

Bottom line: renewables don’t work well in extreme weather. Never will.

This is what happens when you force the grid to rely in part on wind as a power source. When weather conditions get bad as they did this week, intermittent renewable energy like wind isn’t there when you need it. LINK /



BuT tHeY cAn JuSt Be WiNtErIzEd! WiNd PoWeR wOrKs In AnTaRtIcA!!!

Yes, but you don’t in Texas.

You need to look at the average Texas winter weather and compare this storm to that. This is the storm she tells you not to worry about. It’s a robotic 12” cock with a flamethrower attached to a Silverback.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

They did not winterize the wind mills in the southern states . They have blood on their hands just like Republicans shifting the blame .


For a airliner crash that had a 1 in 7 million chance of happening does the airline have blood on its hands because they didn’t equip the plane with ejection seats for each passenger? That’s how stupid you’re logic sounds.
Posted by 76Forest
Member since May 2011
135 posts
Posted on 2/19/21 at 8:15 pm to
Redleg, wind IS the problem along with solar - in that they are subsidized to the point that wind generators can pay to have their power taken away and they still are profitable! How can nuclear and coal compete with that?

Wind and solar are unreliable, you just can’t turn up the production when you want to. If the wind doesn’t blow, or if it blows too hard you get no power from these windmills. Same if they freeze apparently.

Just like California has energy outages in the summer, because they are too dependent on “renewables”, when they don’t make what you need (and it WILL happen), you have to have backups that are reliable or....

The subsidies for renewables are exactly backwards. Renewables should bear an extra burden to pay for the 100% reliable backups they require, probably nuclear or coal when you consider the ability to inventory necessary fuel that gas can’t match.
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