re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

That looks more like a product tanker and in fact is an oil/chemical tanker. There are normally two chiksans (loading arms) for crude oil. Multiple are used for refined products. No one is going to load even small VLCCs there. That is done via mooring buoy and offshore loading

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Putin wants to roll tanks (or at least fly drones) into Europe

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Lmao what a crock of shite.

Oh you sweet, sweet summer child…. So Germany is fi ally getting off its arse and not hiding behind America’s forces. So they made some tanks and other shite and you really think they can out produce America when we put our industrial might to work? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you very cheap! What do you think would happen if Germany ever tried fighting the United States (again)? They would be 0 for 3 with a lot of burning equipment and charred bodies. We still have 4 of the 5 largest Air Forces in the world and we are VERY good at what we do. Look I get your a blind Ukraine supporter, hell I was for the longest time but now this shite has to end because neither side can defeat the other and that isn’t going to change. I like Budanov and I liked Zelensky until he got too big for his very short britches. He’s a glorified grifter now going from country to country with his cup out for donations and when he can’t get huge quantities of highly technical things in short supply like Patriot interceptors he rails on against the U.S., biting the hand that fed his arse and kept him alive the first 3 years of this war while Europe signed deals for support for Ukraine that weren’t worth the paper they were written on because many of those deals wouldn't see weapons in Ukraine’s hands for years into the future. I get you hate Trump and you probably liked Biden and voted for Kamala, thats cool you do you but where do you think Ukraine would stand with that dumb bitch in charge? Take off your blue and yellow tinted sunglasses and take a real look at the battlefield. Is it truly worth sacrificing the number of lives that this war costs daily so someone can take a field or a tree line for the cost of an entire platoon KIA or WIA? I used to believe it was worth it to fight it out but no longer. No matter what or how much Ukraine hits Russian targets deep in the rear, they will still be able to outproduce Ukraine and Europe isn’t going to be financing this war for eternity which is where this war is headed. Make a fricking deal already and be real about your military capabilities. Yes Ukraine has fantastic drones but that won’t win the war for them alone. They just don’t have the manpower anymore after 4 years 2months of war. They are being bled white which is why they are grabbing people off the street and forcing them to fight meanwhile others fled and are profiting from the war like that douchebag Denys Davydov on Telegram who obviously goes to bed thinking about Trump while making it seem like Ukraine is winning. Never mind that as soon as Russia invaded he tucked tail and hauled arse out of Ukraine to Germany like a pussy instead of fighting like other men his age. Drones aren’t enough. I hate to say that too but they can’t beat Russia so its time to make a deal and then have elections so Budanov can replace shorty as Ukraine’s president. If you don’t agree with me then I’d love to see your battle plan that is going to retake the Donbas for Ukraine. Lastly about Germany. You realize they are dependent on others for oil, right? The U.S. isn’t. All anyone has to do to beat a country like Germany is choke off their oil. No military on the planet does jack shite without black gold.

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he plan was that Europe would finally do what we had been begging them to do for 30 years - pay for your own defense!

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Who was begging for this from the White House, or anyplace else in American politics, 30 years ago?

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The plan was not for Europe to be weak, but for Europe to face reality and defend Europe so we could focus on confronting the Chinese threat.

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I'm almost convinced China will prevail, because the U.S. seems too dumb to even understand what they're actually doing.

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Who was begging for this from the White House, or anyplace else in American politics, 30 years ago?

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Yes, the Clinton administration engaged in efforts to encourage NATO allies to share the financial burden of the alliance, particularly during discussions around NATO enlargement in the late 1990s. While focusing on expanding the alliance eastward, the administration pushed for new and existing members to bear more of the costs.

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Every president for at least the last 30 years has lobbied our allies to pay more.

source and context?

Two sources. The first is me. I lived through it, and I remember it. The second - the one I posted - was google AI prompted by a simple question.

Here is a third from ChatGPT

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The Bill Clinton administration did press NATO allies on burden-sharing, but not in the blunt, public “pay more now” style associated with Donald Trump. Clinton’s pressure was more diplomatic, policy-focused, and often tied to NATO expansion and modernization. Here’s what Clinton did: 1. Pushed Europe to shoulder more defense responsibility After the Cold War, Washington wanted European allies to assume a larger share of collective security costs rather than relying disproportionately on U.S. military spending. Burden-sharing was a recurring issue in alliance discussions and in Congress during Clinton’s presidency. 2. Linked burden-sharing to NATO enlargement Clinton championed bringing countries like Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic into NATO. That expansion had costs (infrastructure, interoperability, force modernization), and the administration argued those costs should be shared equitably—not mainly borne by the U.S. Congress explicitly raised this issue in legislation and oversight. 3. Pressed allies on military capability, not just spending totals The 1990s saw NATO operations in Bosnia and Herzegovina and later Kosovo. These exposed capability gaps—European allies often lacked U.S.-level logistics, lift capacity, precision strike capability, and command systems. Clinton officials pushed allies to invest more in usable military capacity, not merely bigger budgets.

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It’s tigerdroppings not a formal letter. Don’t read it if you don’t want to. It’s sad because I was and still am 100% behind Ukraine but some of you have been here the entire time and still believe in ultimate victory for Ukraine like Hitler believed in ultimate victory from his bunker. I’m just looking at things from a practical point of view. If anyone has the magic plan that is going to let Ukraine take their land back not only would I love to hear it but I’m sure Ukrainian high command would as well. It’s over. Make the best deal you can while you have a little bit of leverage from the strikes on Russian refineries.

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huge rift in the pro-Ukrainian side of the thread between the Trump supporters and the non-Trump supporters


How many Trump supporters do you know outside of TDS? Most I know are pro-Ukraine and that hasn't changed.

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I live in Louisiana, so quite a few, including in-laws.

I don't understand how that relates to my statement. Among the Ukraine supporters in this thread, there are Trump supporters and non-Trump supporters... and we end up in arguments about that as much as the pro-Ukraine vs. pro-Putin/"I'm just being realistic that Putin is going to win and won't listen to anything contradicting that though I'm not on his side" side...

Since you posted ansers to this same quote about different things after that, it's too confusing to figure out what exactly you're replying to...

I think China is way more of a mess than we even realize, but I think we might be an even bigger mess that they are...

I see them focused on being self-contained, and no longer dependent on fossil fuels as quickly as they can get there... and focused on being an export economy (which they've achieved). A few years ago their coming demographic problems and the lack of a young workforce all a sudden was what was going to slow them down, but now they're filling up the country with "dark factories" that are completely automated. I read a guy saying we'd beat them with data centers because they have a shortage of fresh water, which is needed for cooling the centers, and we have more to work with... but I just read that they're building their data centers underwater off the coast.

We're building a new Navy of battleships to fight China... I don't think China is planning on having a hot war with us. They just plan on passing us up technologically and economically, making things people want so badly they can make them use the renminbi instead of the dollar in trading for it. I think they will win the innovation game as we're fighting to cling to 19th-century energy and turning away exchange students who have helped us maintain an edge (who China will gladly take) and pushing aside science and scientists. And they delight in every ally we alienate... doing the same thing we pulled on them to lure them away from Russia in the 1960s and 70s.

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The Bill Clinton administration did press NATO allies on burden-sharing, but not in the blunt, public “pay more now” style associated with Donald Trump. Clinton’s pressure was more diplomatic, policy-focused, and often tied to NATO expansion and modernization.

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Well, that says it all right there, really.

We expanded NATO... we made it more expensive in the process.

But it wasn't Trump that suddenly convinced Europe they need to up their ante... it was Putin.