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Message

re: Kenneth Walker WAS NOT a drug dealer

Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:43 pm to
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128778 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:43 pm to
quote:

i'll ask yet again, if you think the police acted illegitimately during the raid, present your evidence. otherwise, the raid (no knock, announcement, who shot first, drug connections, etc) is not an issue and people are yet again rioting due to ignorance.


I would like more than 1 out of 12 witnesses to have heard them announce themselves. But that’s not a crime. Just an unfortunate piece of the puzzle.

Other than what Hankinson was charged with, I don’t think there’s anything to charge. And in a less volatile situation, he might not have been charged for that.
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35925 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:47 pm to
quote:

ould like more than 1 out of 12 witnesses to have heard them announce themselves


You are aware that it is notoriously difficult to get the black community to even speak to the police much less offer testimony that would help exonerate the police, right? Lack of eye witness testimony is hardly proof to the contrary.
This post was edited on 9/24/20 at 6:48 pm
Posted by munchman
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
10371 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:47 pm to
Lye with snakes die with snakes.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128778 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:48 pm to
Cool, man.
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35925 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:50 pm to
quote:

ool, man


I mean there are over 7 billion people on the planet who didn’t hear them announce themselves. It is not an exclusive group of people.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128778 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 6:55 pm to
Don’t make your argument stupid. I understand your argument and I think it’s valid. It’s just not super compelling to me. It is to you. You repeating it 300 times isn’t going to change that.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:03 pm to
1. No-Knock and Forced-Entry warrants are a travesty. While there are certainly rare instances in which they may be justified, they should be used like the strongest spices in the pantry. The tiniest pinch is usually quite enough. THIS warrant in THIS case is like using an entire saffron plant in one small pan of paella.

2. Judges who GRANT such searches outside the NARROWEST parameters are as big a problem as anyone else in the system. They are so terrified that they will be pilloried, if an officer is harmed in "standard" service of a warrant, that they forget the significant harm associated with the enhanced warrants. The facts set forth in THIS affidavit should NOT have supported an enhanced warrant of the Taylor residence. Voters SHOULD remember that at the next judicial election.

3. Cops who willfully perjure themselves in order to OBTAIN an enhanced warrant should be treated as criminals. This cop received some minor discipline (re-assignment, as I recall). He should have been dismissed from his employment and prosecuted to the extent of the perjury laws of his State.

4. Not everyone (and not every Black) killed by the cops was killed by racism. Breonna Taylor was not targeted due to racism. She was targeted because she had previously dated a drug dealer, albeit a damned low-level one. But her role (if any) in his scheme was too minor to justify any sort of enhanced warrant. Search her house in due course and in the light of day.

5. I am willing to assume that the cops on-scene at the Taylor residence DID NOT have knowledge of the fraud used to obtain the warrant they were executing. As such, they were acting within the bounds of the authority granted to them by the warrant when they entered the residence. Nonetheless, it seems clear that they did not "announce themselves" very loudly, if they did so at all. With all their shiny tactical gear, do they not have a bullhorn?

6. An American has the right to defend himself in the case of a forcible, violent invasion of a residence. Walker did NOTHING wrong in this case.

7. I honestly do not fault the police for returning fire at Walker. As I said, they PROBABLY thought they were acting under a completely lawful warrant. But (to say the least) they seem to have lacked fire discipline and made poor choices of ammunition, as a number of rounds seem to have found their way into at least one neighboring apartment. Would not low-penetration rounds have made more sense, in the confines of an apartment complex? Was there ANY excuse for firing blindly through a window, when completely surrounded by innocent families?
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35925 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:08 pm to
You keep trotting out the transverse so not sure why you think it will go unchallenged.

Regarding the 911 call, does the crying and sadness not seem strange to you? I try not to judge people in highly stressful situations about the way “they should be behaving” but I can’t help but find his reaction a little odd. He doesn’t seem panicked or scarred like you would expect. The sudden grief seems a little Out of the ordinary to me.

Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35925 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

AggieHank86


You posted that manifesto but clown me when I suggested cops do the raids where cash is suspected in order to pilfer it for themselves.

Cops wouldn’t do nearly as many of these raids if they didn’t get a cut of the loot. Wake up.
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
64356 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:15 pm to
Kenneth Walker walked free without charges even though they did initially charge him.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28131 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:17 pm to
quote:

poor choices of ammunition, as a number of rounds seem to have found their way into at least one neighboring apartment. Would not low-penetration rounds have made more sense, in the confines of an apartment complex?


Good post with this glaring exception. You probably shouldn’t offer an opinion on anything firearm related.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
128778 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:18 pm to
I don’t think it will go unchallenged. I made a pretty mild statement. If I’m a cop in that position, I want everyone in the damned apartment building to know that I’m saying I’m the police.

Not one guy who stepped outside.

You can question the veracity of the other witnesses. That’s legitimate. I think my point is legitimate as well. It doesn’t mean the police are criminally liable. Just maybe something that could’ve been done better.

The assumption that she was home alone is really what drove a couple of bad decisions.
Posted by CredulousChowder
Boone, NC
Member since Sep 2020
161 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:21 pm to
quote:

victims


Well, in this case the issue is more about the victim's association and predicament in which same placed her.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Good post with this glaring exception
Thanks, I think.

I admit that I am not nearly the firearm aficionado that many of you are. I have fewer than a dozen firearms, most of which I have owned for decades. I kill things to eat. I do not play with my weapons like kid constantly adding newer and better gizmos. I have a box or two of ammo for each weapon, rather than cargo containers full of enough ammo to get me thru a zombie apocalypse. So educate me about low-penetration rounds.

My understanding is that low-penetration rounds are designed to expend the vast majority of their kinetic energy upon impact, rather than passing thru a target with the majority of their kinetic energy potential still in place.

Again, my understanding is that they hit a wall (or a person) and basically largely-disintegrate, transferring the VAST majority of their kinetic energy to the very first thing they hit and lessening the likelihood of damage, injury or death to anything that some bit of remaining shrapnel might hit subsequently.

I keep hollow points in my Beretta 92, because I have been told that this round is basically a low-tech version of a low-penetration round ... that it will make a bigger hole in the bad guy and be less-likely to kill someone in the next room.

Is this not basically-accurate? If so, are they not a far-superior choice in an urban setting where there exists a likelihood of collateral damage? (Yes, I do understand that they ARE probably more deadly to the FIRST target. By expending all of their kinetic energy, they make a BIG damned hole, rather than a small one.)
This post was edited on 9/24/20 at 7:45 pm
Posted by BamaGradinTn
Murfreesboro
Member since Dec 2008
29227 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:31 pm to
quote:

Walker is a licensed gun owner.
With a ccw permit.


How many licensed owners with cc permit make a habit of sitting around the house all day holding their gun with finger ready to pull the trigger?

The fact that he was ready when they came in the door tells me that the police announced and identified themselves, giving him time to go get his gun.
Posted by xGeauxLSUx
United States of Atrophy
Member since Oct 2008
22900 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

Not everyone (and not every Black) killed by the cops was killed by racism. Breonna Taylor was not targeted due to racism. She was targeted because she had previously dated a drug dealer, albeit a damned low-level one. But her role (if any) in his scheme was too minor to justify any sort of enhanced warrant. Search her house in due course and in the light of day.

Wasn't it because her ex-bf was using her address?
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:34 pm to
quote:

The fact that he was ready when they came in the door tells me that the police announced and identified themselves, giving him time to go get his gun.
Posits that Walker (a law-abiding citizen with a good job and a CCW) got out of bed and armed himself BECAUSE he heard people beating on the door and announcing themselves as law enforcement, with the implicit assumption that he would NOT have done so if the people beating on the door had NOT claimed to be cops.

OK.
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35925 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:40 pm to
Officers testified that they didn’t announce at first. 3 knocks before they announced.

Posted by BigB123
Texas
Member since Dec 2018
1029 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:41 pm to
Pretty much agree with everything except 7. There’s no magic bullet that is both lethal to the intended target AND doesn’t present risk of penetrating surrounding structures. HP’s help decrease issues with over penetration but have to be designed such that they can still go through basic obstacles like thick clothing and minor barriers (dry wall).

But in general good post. The bottom line is the system was really at fault here but I don’t believe it was due to racism. The only person you could attempt to consider racist was the cop providing the judge the questionable warrant as that was the only person likely aware of the race of the suspects prior to the chain of events that occurred within the confines of the law.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39853 posts
Posted on 9/24/20 at 7:46 pm to
quote:

You either want truth and accuracy, or you don’t.
They don't.
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