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Started By
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re: IVF is about to be screwed
Posted on 2/19/24 at 10:39 pm to oklahogjr
Posted on 2/19/24 at 10:39 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
conception
I’m not saying I have this all figured out, but have fertilized eggs in a test tube been “conceived”?
There’s a good argument that, given there is another proactive medical procedure required to even give those fertilized eggs a shot at implanting, there is no conception. There is no pregnancy to terminate. No implantation. Not even in biologically situated to implant without a big invasive act of insertion and placement.
Contrast with pregnancy. You have to proactively do something major or else you end up with a baby, barring miscarriage.
This isn’t airtight. But there is a significant logical and biological difference between pregnancy and test tube.
3
Posted on 2/19/24 at 10:45 pm to McLemore
quote:
I’m not saying I have this all figured out, but have fertilized eggs in a test tube been “conceived”?
It's all a bit muddy. Folks have been using fertilization and conception interchangeably outside of Ivf for the most part. And that's what I meant to imply specifically. Egg + sperm = human life
Part of the problem is people trying to legislate their religion which most certainly didn't understand the exact biologic processes or have IVF available when they were writing the rules down.
quote:
But there is a significant logical and biological difference between pregnancy and test tube.
Totally agree but the rush to do something has come before the understanding is complete and thus we have shitty situations for people created by government overreach.
Posted on 2/19/24 at 11:14 pm to LSU2ALA
Good. IVF is an awful procedure.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 12:30 am to LSU2ALA
How about we do root cause analysis? Is it wise to wait until you're almost 40 as a chick to try to have kids? You're not living in Mobile or Birmingham and thinking of taking over the world.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 7:15 am to LemmyLives
quote:
How about we do root cause analysis? Is it wise to wait until you're almost 40 as a chick to try to have kids? You're not living in Mobile or Birmingham and thinking of taking over the world.
There are plenty of couples trying to get pregnant who cannot conceive naturally and use IVF. Most of them are not 40 or older.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 7:16 am to BlackAdam
quote:
Good. IVF is an awful procedure.
Knowing I’m going to regret this, but Why?
Posted on 2/20/24 at 7:18 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
IVF labs and services will close down, to avoid major risk.
I bet they don’t.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 7:35 am to LSU2ALA
quote:
Alabama Supreme Court states embryos are people. When you do IVF, you make extra embryos as you don’t know how many it will take to be successful. In Alabama, I don’t know how you do that as you are essentially required to keep them frozen forever now, paying to do so, or implant them. This will really make IVF be incredibly difficult for most to do.
If you believe life begins at conception, that has to include embryos fertilized in a lab. If it doesn’t, you are a hypocrite. You either believe they are people or they aren’t. People who argue life in the womb begins at conception, you have to also believe these embryos are people too.
This is painful, but it’s reality.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 7:52 am to SloaneRanger
quote:
It was in the context of a wrongful death civil suit where someone at the medical facility dropped the embryos, destroying them. Haven’t read the opinion yet, but it sounds crazy tbh.
If you accidentally ran into a pregnant woman and ended her pregnancy, would it be crazy then? This is not really a tough logical stretch at all.
You either believe they are people are not, regardless of their location.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 7:55 am to SloaneRanger
quote:
It was in the context of a wrongful death civil suit where someone at the medical facility dropped the embryos, destroying them. Haven’t read the opinion yet, but it sounds crazy tbh.
Bad facts make bad law.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:01 am to RebelExpress38
quote:
If you accidentally ran into a pregnant woman and ended her pregnancy, would it be crazy then? This is not really a tough logical stretch at all.
I understand the argument. But this isn’t close to the example you presented. They were in test tubes or whatever container was being used. Calling these “wrongful deaths” is going to lead to some crazy and absurd results.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:14 am to RebelExpress38
quote:
If you believe life begins at conception, that has to include embryos fertilized in a lab. If it doesn’t, you are a hypocrite. You either believe they are people or they aren’t. People who argue life in the womb begins at conception, you have to also believe these embryos are people too.
This is painful, but it’s reality.
This is why pro-lifers will continue to lose.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:29 am to RebelExpress38
quote:
If you accidentally ran into a pregnant woman and ended her pregnancy, would it be crazy then? This is not really a tough logical stretch at all.
If you didn't run into the pregnant lady, a life would be born.
If you didn't drop the embryos, would a life be born?
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:31 am to McLemore
quote:
I’m not saying I have this all figured out, but have fertilized eggs in a test tube been “conceived”?
There’s a good argument that, given there is another proactive medical procedure required to even give those fertilized eggs a shot at implanting, there is no conception. There is no pregnancy to terminate. No implantation. Not even in biologically situated to implant without a big invasive act of insertion and placement.
quote:Soooo are you saying:
But there is a significant logical and biological difference between pregnancy and test tube.
Embryos are not viable until they are implanted.
Life begins at viability.
Interesting concept.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:32 am to BlackAdam
quote:
. IVF is an awful procedure.
....why?
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:34 am to SlowFlowPro
The truth isn’t always popular.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:39 am to BlackAdam
quote:
Good. IVF is an awful procedure.
Yeah god forbid people who are struggling to have kids because of all the crap they put in our food and forcing poorly made vaccines on us have a chance of experiencing being a parent. That sounds like an awful procedure.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:43 am to Don Johnson
No doubt IVF has done good for couples who genuinely can’t have babies and want them. You just have to answer for the embryos that are unused. If you believe life begins at conception then you can’t ignore this.
Just be prepared for the next few decades where surrogacy and designer babies are the norm all brought to you by IVF. It’s going to be everywhere. We will have the technology to test the genes and select for eye color, hair, build, gender, you name it. We will have people renting wombs to host their designer babies. They will discard all the less desirable embryos that don’t make the cut.
Just be prepared for the next few decades where surrogacy and designer babies are the norm all brought to you by IVF. It’s going to be everywhere. We will have the technology to test the genes and select for eye color, hair, build, gender, you name it. We will have people renting wombs to host their designer babies. They will discard all the less desirable embryos that don’t make the cut.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:44 am to oklahogjr
quote:
This is actually real time watching us fall down the slippery slope we were worried about with this whole when life begins can of worms.
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:47 am to McLemore
quote:
This isn’t airtight. But there is a significant logical and biological difference between pregnancy and test tube.
You either believe they are people or not.
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