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Started By
Message
re: Italy's national health care: Those over 80 to be denied intensive care
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:38 pm to Ag Zwin
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:38 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
Well, it could be that an industry not being run with a civil servant mentality would have a better allocation of resources in place BEFORE they hit an event that exacerbated shortages.
I have no clue on the efficacy of having a ton of icu beds and vents "available" -- I have no idea of the cost and what not. Ideally, yes that would be it but in a crisis, I can't imagine that vents could be made quick enough to meet the surge in demand.
1
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:38 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
(in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties. save who you can
no they've set the standard that healthcare is a right. They have to figure out how to provide it now. This is exactly why you shouldn't go around touting a finite resource that relies on other people as a "right." fricking dumbasses.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:38 pm to The Maj
quote:
Show me the link
Can anyone in this country who currently wants a test and treatment for any symptoms of COVID-19 receive said test and care?
I thought not.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:39 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:Government with fiscal problems. Old people are expensive. They don't pay taxes. Do the math.
Why age? “They’ve lived long enough” is that really where we are as a planet?
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:46 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
If I have only one bed to give and One is an otherwise healthy 40 yr old, and one is 87. Sorry but I'm giving it to the 40 year old. It's harsh, and I pray it doesn't come to that, but you have to be realistic on who has the best chance to survive.
If healthcare is a human right and you don't provide it to everyone then you are guilty of a human rights violation. Full stop. If you're going down that path you don't get to tap dance around it.
This post was edited on 3/16/20 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:51 pm to Ag Zwin
80 is old but some people are able to live well into their 90’s, still of sound mind, still enjoying time with grandchildren/great grandchildren. Sorry, you may have had another decade with your loved ones but we can’t help you.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:51 pm to Ag Zwin
This has been going on for a week now. That’s one of the reasons Italy has a higher than average mortality rate.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:55 pm to tiger91
quote:
I have no clue on the efficacy of having a ton of icu beds and vents "available" -- I have no idea of the cost and what not. Ideally, yes that would be it but in a crisis, I can't imagine that vents could be made quick enough to meet the surge in demand.
Well, let me help you out. Looks like the one system with a cost-and profit-driven model is the one best prepared for the emergency.
Truth be told, I am not one of the types who is categorically against a basic level of care for all, paid for by taxes. Nobody has that conversation (about "basic" levels), though. It's always "all or none". In that world, the choice is easy for me.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 3:59 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
it's called triage
This you dumb motherfrickers. It isn’t some conspiracy or knock on socialized vs private healthcare.
The same exact shite will happen here if it gets bad enough and there’s not enough ICU space. You are fooling yourselves if you don’t think the hospitals here don’t have their own patient priority guidelines already lined up. Hope you arnt old and/or sickly. Doctors and nurses will be your fate decider
This post was edited on 3/16/20 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:01 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
it's called triage
It’s called the repeated response to all idiots who say “but every European civilized nation has socialized heath care!!!1!11. And it’s great!! Why can’t we??”
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:02 pm to Ag Zwin
Aren't those the ones that actually need it from this virus? 
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:03 pm to OchoDedos
quote:
It's called a social welfare state saving money.
You idiots have no idea how healthcare works.
You think this is special to Italy and "socialized healthcare." What the hell do you think will happen here if it gets bad enough?
Being so blinded by fanatical party waving shite is beyond childish.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:03 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
it's called triage
Thanks, Major Burns.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:03 pm to CleverUserName
quote:And those that belive someting being a right = the government will always provide it to you.
It’s called the repeated response to all idiots who say “but every European civilized nation has socialized heath care!!!1!11. And it’s great!! Why can’t we??”
They confuse rights with means.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:03 pm to rpg37
For God’s ale, don’t use Italy as an example
Wonderful people, and a beautiful country. It’s just not the model of efficiency.
Wonderful people, and a beautiful country. It’s just not the model of efficiency.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:05 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
You think this is special to Italy and "socialized healthcare." What the hell do you think will happen here if it gets bad enough? Being so blinded by fanatical party waving shite is beyond childish
Karma is coming in microscopic form
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:06 pm to VOR
quote:
For God’s ale, don’t use Italy as an example Wonderful people, and a beautiful country. It’s just not the model of efficiency.
OK.
Which country in the chart above is the one to emulate?
I’ll grant you Germany. Which one is next?
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:07 pm to Ag Zwin
Single.Payer.System.
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:07 pm to VOR
quote:"they just didn't do it right". Classic.
For God’s ale, don’t use Italy as an example
Wonderful people, and a beautiful country. It’s just not the model of efficiency.
Luckily we have a failed bartender to lead the way here!
Posted on 3/16/20 at 4:11 pm to EarlyCuyler3
The health system I personally work for, a nonprofit, non socialized system just closed a perfectly good ICU a while back. Why? Because they were losing money on it. Guess who's going to be scrambling like hell to open it back up real soon?
Does that happen in a socialized system? Maybe. Maybe not. Point is, the circle jerk over socialized medicine in a situation like this is beyond ridiculous. I wonder how some of you manage to breath without being told how to do so.
Does that happen in a socialized system? Maybe. Maybe not. Point is, the circle jerk over socialized medicine in a situation like this is beyond ridiculous. I wonder how some of you manage to breath without being told how to do so.
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