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Message

Is there a path to moral assisted suicide?
Posted on 12/17/22 at 11:58 am
Posted on 12/17/22 at 11:58 am
I watched my mother suffer for months with a terminal incurable and painful disease. Fortunately for her (and not so much for everyone else) a lazy arse nurse gave her a pain injection that should have taken 60 seconds or so to slowly administer in about 3 seconds. She was dead before the nurse got back to her station.
This is serious stuff - shouldn't be offered to anyone who is mentally ill - they are not of right mind and cannot make such decisions. It should NOT be offered to anyone who has months or years to live. In my opinion, for what that is worth - it should be offered to people who are days or weeks from death - 100% sure of dying - to prevent their suffering.
I put down my dog with advanced stomoach cancer when I could see the pain pills were no long working. I put down my dog with mesothelioma when I saw his breathing was so poor - that he'd have panic attacks and pass out. I put down my dog that had a stroke and could no longer move her limbs. I put down my dog with ALS when she could no longer stand to eat, drink or go to the bathroom. All these animals were of advanced age and were well loved. All were terminal. All had no quality of life - most only had a few days to live. I did the right thing.
I know dogs are not people - and allowing this could be a slipperty slope, but the principal is the same. Apart from people abusing the spirit of such a program - I do think it's the moral thing to do. Most of these people would not be alive to suffer if not for modern medicine.
What do you think? I'd want someone to do it for me. Imagine yourself with a brain tumor - in and out of consciousness and in constant pain for the last few weeks of your life - no way, no way, no way.
This is serious stuff - shouldn't be offered to anyone who is mentally ill - they are not of right mind and cannot make such decisions. It should NOT be offered to anyone who has months or years to live. In my opinion, for what that is worth - it should be offered to people who are days or weeks from death - 100% sure of dying - to prevent their suffering.
I put down my dog with advanced stomoach cancer when I could see the pain pills were no long working. I put down my dog with mesothelioma when I saw his breathing was so poor - that he'd have panic attacks and pass out. I put down my dog that had a stroke and could no longer move her limbs. I put down my dog with ALS when she could no longer stand to eat, drink or go to the bathroom. All these animals were of advanced age and were well loved. All were terminal. All had no quality of life - most only had a few days to live. I did the right thing.
I know dogs are not people - and allowing this could be a slipperty slope, but the principal is the same. Apart from people abusing the spirit of such a program - I do think it's the moral thing to do. Most of these people would not be alive to suffer if not for modern medicine.
What do you think? I'd want someone to do it for me. Imagine yourself with a brain tumor - in and out of consciousness and in constant pain for the last few weeks of your life - no way, no way, no way.
This post was edited on 12/17/22 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:01 pm to Marquesa
I absolutely think it is moral to put someone out of misery, however the practice will be ripe with abuse.
It’s opening Pandora’s box, but I’m okay with it.
It’s opening Pandora’s box, but I’m okay with it.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:04 pm to Marquesa
quote:
Is there a path to moral assisted suicide?
Not really
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:08 pm to Marquesa
Well, damn sure keep the government out of the process, whatever it is.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:09 pm to Marquesa
My sister got the morphine too.
Lung cancer, she was days past due.
They did an emergency surgery to give her up to 3 more days so that family could arrive before she passed.
She was begging to go the night that everyone arrived.
That was decades ago.
So should we say "it's been going on" and let the leftist distort it like they have gender?
Lung cancer, she was days past due.
They did an emergency surgery to give her up to 3 more days so that family could arrive before she passed.
She was begging to go the night that everyone arrived.
That was decades ago.
So should we say "it's been going on" and let the leftist distort it like they have gender?
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:15 pm to Marquesa
I understand pain.
What is God's opinion on suicide ?
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:16 pm to Marquesa
No. It’s not moral.
Reducing or eliminating suffering sounds good, but taking a life in the name of being “humane” opens a door that won’t be closed. It’s “humane” to murder the homeless, the parentless, the poor, the ugly, the outcasts, the lonely, the genetically inferior, the religious, the politically conservative, etc. You can justify all sorts of killing in the name of reducing suffering, to the individual as well as to society at large.
It just depends on who is in charge and who defines what constitutes suffering.
Reducing or eliminating suffering sounds good, but taking a life in the name of being “humane” opens a door that won’t be closed. It’s “humane” to murder the homeless, the parentless, the poor, the ugly, the outcasts, the lonely, the genetically inferior, the religious, the politically conservative, etc. You can justify all sorts of killing in the name of reducing suffering, to the individual as well as to society at large.
It just depends on who is in charge and who defines what constitutes suffering.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:19 pm to Marquesa
Every major religion in earth teaches that suicide will guarantee hell.
So no
So no
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:24 pm to Marquesa
Happens all the time in hospitals and hospice. There is a point where you show mercy.
We understand this with animals, but not humans.
We understand this with animals, but not humans.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:24 pm to Marquesa
Canada
The hospice will do it with Morphine.
The hospice will do it with Morphine.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:28 pm to Marquesa
To show god how you love him and he loves you you and your family have to suffer unspeakable pain.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:28 pm to Marquesa
The wife (nopics) was always on the fence about assisted suicide, but then her grandmother started her slow decline. The problem with her decline was that she hovered near the bottom for almost a year with her being in and out of care facilities for two years prior due to various serious health issues. She was in her 90's, knew her quality of life was shite and was only going to get worse and wanted a more dignified way out.
During that last year she was in and out of a vegetative state, even when she was able to communicate she didn't know where she was, what was going on, etc. Those moments over the last year of her life were spent mainly in worry, pain and fear.
Not long after she passed, our dog died. She had a tumor inside her (on her liver or kidney, can't remember which) that had distorted the shape of her stomach so that she could barely eat anything. It was inoperable and she was slowly starving to death. When we finally made the call (I was ready a week or two before the wife was) we took her, her bed and her blanket to the vet's office. We sat on the floor with her and loved on her. The vet came in and gave her an IV tap then said to let him know when we were ready. We loved on her enough that she was calm and in as good a place as she could be considering her issues, then I gave the nod to the vet.
The injection went in and she simply lowered her head and closed her eyes as if she were so very tired and was going to sleep. There was no pain, no fear, no spasm. She just went quietly and peacefully.
We were able to give our dog a far better final last moments with us that my wife's grandmother got. Having the two events within months of one another was jarring in how stark the differences were.
I understand there's grave potential for fraud, but from my personal experience I would rather at least attempt to put in a system with rigorous focus on restricting any such fraudulent attempts (and prosecuting the bleeding frick out of them) than continuing to force people to linger, often in pain and fear, just because we want to deny the inevitable (that they are going to die anyway).
If someone is considered terminal by multiple medical professionals, it's the height of cruelty, selfishness and insensitivity to force them to slowly wither and to force their family and friends to have to bear witness to such a needless allowance of degradation of life.
During that last year she was in and out of a vegetative state, even when she was able to communicate she didn't know where she was, what was going on, etc. Those moments over the last year of her life were spent mainly in worry, pain and fear.
Not long after she passed, our dog died. She had a tumor inside her (on her liver or kidney, can't remember which) that had distorted the shape of her stomach so that she could barely eat anything. It was inoperable and she was slowly starving to death. When we finally made the call (I was ready a week or two before the wife was) we took her, her bed and her blanket to the vet's office. We sat on the floor with her and loved on her. The vet came in and gave her an IV tap then said to let him know when we were ready. We loved on her enough that she was calm and in as good a place as she could be considering her issues, then I gave the nod to the vet.
The injection went in and she simply lowered her head and closed her eyes as if she were so very tired and was going to sleep. There was no pain, no fear, no spasm. She just went quietly and peacefully.
We were able to give our dog a far better final last moments with us that my wife's grandmother got. Having the two events within months of one another was jarring in how stark the differences were.
I understand there's grave potential for fraud, but from my personal experience I would rather at least attempt to put in a system with rigorous focus on restricting any such fraudulent attempts (and prosecuting the bleeding frick out of them) than continuing to force people to linger, often in pain and fear, just because we want to deny the inevitable (that they are going to die anyway).
If someone is considered terminal by multiple medical professionals, it's the height of cruelty, selfishness and insensitivity to force them to slowly wither and to force their family and friends to have to bear witness to such a needless allowance of degradation of life.
This post was edited on 12/17/22 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:30 pm to Marquesa
It’s either moral or it’s not.
It’s not.
It’s not.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:31 pm to Marquesa
Suicide booths like in Futurama
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:32 pm to Marquesa
I think let people make their own decisions. If they want out, let them do it.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:38 pm to billjamin
quote:
I think let people make their own decisions. If they want out, let them do it.
I think we can grant people their own agency while still bringing into question of what they choose is what they ought to do from a moral perspective. There are plenty of actions people might consider immoral that society allows on the logic that government should ultimately allow freedom of choice.
This is a really tough one to balance the feeling that it’s wrong to not try and prevent suicide with the feeling that it’s wrong to deny a competent and well-informed person their agency. I’ll try and straddle that line as best I can:
This post was edited on 12/17/22 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 12/17/22 at 12:57 pm to Marquesa
I hope I don't sound hard-hearted or anything with this statement. I am all for the comfort of the dying anyway they need to be comforted, but just not one particular shot or medicine dosage that can do the job all by itself. I believe the Bible teaches that each man and woman must bear their own lot in life. For some it seems unfair, but our Messiah suffered and bore a great burden for mankind in an excruciating way, and I believe he will give us the strength to endure whatever befalls us.
This post was edited on 12/17/22 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 12/17/22 at 1:19 pm to Bard
An animal's life is NOT equivalent to human life.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 1:22 pm to Marquesa
If you identify as a dead person, the medical establishment has a moral obligation to surgically alter your living body until it's a dead body and any opposition to this stance makes you a bigot.
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