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re: Is there a path to moral assisted suicide?
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:01 am to Marquesa
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:01 am to Marquesa
I am kinda for it. We show more humanity in that sense to animals. Morally society accepts abortion for a majority of both men and women. Maybe not a large majority but still in all from recent news and events it seems to be the case. We are in moral acceptance of killing of babies. It seems to be more humane to end suffering of those that cannot be helped any longer.
On a personal note my children had to let their mom go from life support. Not an easy thing to do. It was proven in testing there was no oxygen going to the brain and therefore brain dead. It hurts to let go of those we love but it is much better than the inhumanity of them suffering longer.
Just my experience and hope it helps.
On a personal note my children had to let their mom go from life support. Not an easy thing to do. It was proven in testing there was no oxygen going to the brain and therefore brain dead. It hurts to let go of those we love but it is much better than the inhumanity of them suffering longer.
Just my experience and hope it helps.
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Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:04 am to SantaFe
quote:
What is God's opinion on suicide ?
Biblically for me is that once saved always saved. If one commits suicide without denouncing ones faith they are still saved.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:13 am to Marquesa
There is nothing moral about suicide. However, what you described with your mom was not suicide , it’s “double effect”, which is moral. You mom was in serious pain . The injection was for that main purpose. Unfortunately, it also causes the body’s muscles to slow down so much the heart stops beating, and she passed . But, that wasn’t the main purpose of the injection , it was an unfortunate double effect .
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:26 am to Northwestern tiger
quote:Several of the world’s major religions do not even have the CONCEPT of “Hell.”
Every major religion in earth teaches that suicide will guarantee hell.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:32 am to Marquesa
Everyone understands that the potential for abuse exists. The question is whether you allow the exceptions to dictate the rule … or implement a humane system and punish those who abuse it.
I favor the latter approach.
I favor the latter approach.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:40 am to evil cockroach
quote:Pretending that a lethal dose of morphine was administered just “for the pain” and that death was not the intended result? Pure sophistry to ease the conscience of those unwilling to examine the larger question.
what you described with your mom was not suicide , it’s “double effect”, which is moral. You mom was in serious pain . The injection was for that main purpose.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 8:12 am
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:46 am to SantaFe
quote:
What is God's opinion on suicide ?
What's God's opinion on insufferable pain that prolongs agony with no chance of improvement?
I know that Drs and hospitals want the agony to last as long as possible.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:48 am to FooManChoo
quote:
No. It’s not moral.
You are not the absolute authority on what or what not is moral.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:50 am to Northwestern tiger
quote:
Every major religion in earth teaches that suicide will guarantee hell.
There is no hell in a properly translated Bible where those who die for any sin including suicide are tortured for all eternity.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:53 am to the808bass
quote:
My daughter suffered with an earache once. Perhaps we should have killed her instead.
Sir, this is the polly board...not the OT
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:04 am to Enadious
quote:What most people THINK they know about Hell owes more to Dante than to the Bible.
There is no hell in a properly translated Bible where those who die for any sin including suicide are tortured for all eternity.
What Dante wrote was understood to be entertaining fiction at the time. He was the scifi/fantasy writer of his day.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 8:16 am
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:06 am to Marquesa
quote:
- shouldn't be offered to anyone who is mentally ill
There's a path to suicide right now. People don't seem to be struggling to make it happen.
Offering assisted suicide to mentally ill will be abused beyond description.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:09 am to Marquesa
Putting an animal to sleep is the right and moral thing to do in cases of pain or incurable disease. In no case can this be compared to assisted suicide--that's never morally justified
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:17 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Hell owes more to Dante than to the Bible
You need to crack open your bible. Jesus talks about Hell throughout, the fire that never quencheth, the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
What about Lazarus and the rich man who died and went to hell?
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:26 am to Marquesa
quote:
In my opinion
Dogs are not people, but people like yourself who realize that dogs have the same feelings of Love, but in relation to their relative awareness, that people do. The essence of Life IS Feeling. You did the right thing re your 'dogs'; we've done it a lot, and I have gained great insight from it. You are the dog's 'Jesus' in effect.
The best of things can be corrupted by malicious or even misguided intention, and it muddies the policy water for those who intentions are altruistic and based on Love.
IMO (
), there should be a legal process wherein a person (their scenario) could be examined by the proper and totally accountable and transparent 'Authorities' and determine the moral legitimacy on said person or their representative loved ones being able to acquire the drugs and employ them to end their loved one's suffering. I've read various Religious/Spiritual philosophical essays wherein such concludes that suffering pays large dividends in the 'big picture' of developing one's Soul. Just a much as the experience of pleasure and happiness. And that such sufferings pays off Karmic 'debt'; though given the Jesus 'card' (Mercy re Karmic debt) I do not know the answer to that assertion.
Bottom line. My Wife has her pain pills, and knowing her, at some point, she would take the whole batch. Sorrowfully so. But that is her moral right. As to how that works out with Jesus in the 'hereafter' life (assuming there is such), I have no idea. Other than that Jesus judgements will be based on an unimaginable degree of Love and mercy. The same kind you lent to your dogs.
God speed, M. Merry Christmas. Life is hard.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:29 am to AggieHank86
quote:not what the OP said
Pretending that a lethal dose of morphine
Posted on 12/18/22 at 9:03 am to AggieHank86
The concept of Hell seems to actually have taken root in Jesus' ministry. There's little or no discussion of it (or of salvation) in the Old Testament. It seems as if the dual concepts of salvation and hell are not part of traditional Judaism.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 9:09 am to Enadious
quote:That’s very true. God is, and He explains where the value of life comes from, and it doesn’t come from utility or personal feelings.
You are not the absolute authority on what or what not is moral.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 9:20 am to tarzana
quote:True. And most of that which is attributed to Jesus can easily be interpreted as allegory as well, and don’t get me started on the fever dreams that are John and Revelation. But that was not my point.
The concept of Hell seems to actually have taken root in Jesus' ministry. There's little or no discussion of it (or of salvation) in the Old Testament. It seems as if the dual concepts of salvation and hell are not part of traditional Judaism.
My point is that most of the “facts“ that people think they know about Hell do not come from anywhere in the Bible, but rather from Dante. Getting eaten eternally by monsters. That sort of thing.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 9:44 am
Posted on 12/18/22 at 9:33 am to FooManChoo
quote:
That’s very true. God is, and He explains where the value of life comes from, and it doesn’t come from utility or personal feelings.
Good thing we're a Republic and not a Theocracy. Your God isn't my God and I am not subject to your beliefs.
Everyone here talks about a slippery slope but what about the slippery slope the other way? Technically Christianity is against alcohol, do we go back to prohibition? Christianity is against gambling, do we go back to making gambling illegal everywhere? Heck until fairly recently a lot of segments of Christianity (especially Baptists) prohibited dancing, do we make dancing illegal?
You all are going down your own slippery slope.
Personal agency and assisted suicide is something I've become passionate about as I've gotten older. Animals are given a more humane death than humans. How can you justify that? Why should people have to suffer? What gives anyone the right to tell someone else they just have to suck it up when it's not then who are dealing with crippling depression/anxiety or a medical condition that greatly limits quality of life.
I do believe in a higher power but I don't believe in the idea of a heaven and a hell. I believe the universe doesn't waste energy and I do believe the soul is different than the body. The body might die but the soul does not. Due to that I believe in reincarnation.
The problem I have with heaven and hell is the ways it can get messed up. Someone can live a horrible live for the first 50 years of their life, do terrible things, be "saved" and convert to Christianity and go to heaven? Meanwhile someone who lives a good life, volunteers and tries to help people but doesn't believe in God goes to hell? If that's the case that so called "heaven" doesn't sound like heaven at all and I would question any God who puts the first person in above the second person in that scenario.
People have far less control over their lives than most of us want to admit. Agency over our body and our decision to live or die is one of the things we should have absolute control over.
And yes making assisted suicide legal is opening pandora's box. And I say open that box, it's long past time.
And it shouldn't just be for terminal diseases. It should be available if someone is just tired of life and wants to end it. They should be able to go out peacefully and with dignity. If you want to say the doctor can administer the morphine (or whatever it used) that's fine, but it can be provided and then it's up to the person to administer the dose to end their life. But it should be legal and allowed.
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