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re: Is the Koran or Quran taken out of context ?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:04 pm to Rip Torner
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:04 pm to Rip Torner
quote:There is no question that the Sixth Pillar is "jihad." The problem is determining exactly what "jihad" might be.
The Sixth Pillar is always conveniently overlooked by the panderers or explained away as “metaphorical” or “internal” but millions of his followers have used it throughout the centuries.
The literal translation is something like "great struggle." Is that struggle internal, or is a "holy warfare?" Entire books have been written on the topic, and anyone actually interested in the the topic understands that there is no definitive answer to those questions.
I don't accept the premise that "jihad" means "holy war" for a variety of textual reasons, not least being that "war" in Arabic is "harb" and that "holy" would be some form of either "muqadas" or "quds." If Muhammad mean "holy war" he would have used those words.
Now, there is no question that the Qur'an does allow for the spread of Islam thru warfare, vis-a-vis people who do not follow the other Abrahamic religions (e.g. pagans). This is regardless of whether such warfare is one of the Pillars.
I tend to think that those Muslims who simply want to take and keep a parcel of land (including the "Holy Land") simply find a way to interpret "jihad" to support their secular aims by making it a Pillar.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 2:01 pm
2
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:09 pm to Antoninus
quote:
Now, there is no question that the Qur'an does allow for the spread of Islam thru warfare, vis-a-vis people who do not follow the other Abrahamic religions
And here you are white-knighting for it.
Are you that psychotic?
It also allows the conquerors to rape and enslave those they defeat.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:12 pm to ApexTiger
Goes back to Abraham and Sarah. Sarah thought she would never concieve so she had Abraham sleep with her handmaid, Hagar. That child was Ishmael.
GOD appeared to Abraham and made a covenant and told him his wife Sarah, though old, would concieve a child. His name was Issac.
Genesis 17:19-21 makes clear which way is The Way.
(Talking to Abraham ) Then GOD said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Issac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him."
GOD made it clear, though Ishmael was blessed, HIS covenant flowed through Issac and Issac only.
Islam's lineage starts there with Ishmael. A false one with no covenant with GOD Almighty.
The rub with Muslims is when talking about ISIS Hamas, they will simply say "Islam is a peaceful religion". They will never publicly denounce and call these vermin pigs the trash they are. The reason is publicly they won't support it, but privately they do.
GOD appeared to Abraham and made a covenant and told him his wife Sarah, though old, would concieve a child. His name was Issac.
Genesis 17:19-21 makes clear which way is The Way.
(Talking to Abraham ) Then GOD said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Issac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him."
GOD made it clear, though Ishmael was blessed, HIS covenant flowed through Issac and Issac only.
Islam's lineage starts there with Ishmael. A false one with no covenant with GOD Almighty.
The rub with Muslims is when talking about ISIS Hamas, they will simply say "Islam is a peaceful religion". They will never publicly denounce and call these vermin pigs the trash they are. The reason is publicly they won't support it, but privately they do.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:13 pm to riccoar
quote:
but privately they do.
Poll after poll after poll after poll shows that muslims condone violence against non-muslims.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:22 pm to Antoninus
quote:
I've just never even heard the assertion that Muslims redacted violent passages from the Qur'an for translation into English.
I didn't either until 3 years ago. But you have to remember that all religious texts were edited. What we call 'The Bible' is a collection of writings that have had books thrown in and books thrown out for thousands of years. That includes Old and New Testaments.
My most recent favorite is Lilith. She goes back to 4,000 BC with the Sumerians. She is the ultimate evil bitch who is later blamed for random illness in the Dark Ages. The Torah mentions her once saying she would be comfortable living in a cursed waste land. I've met women like that.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:23 pm to riccoar
quote:I bet Muslims hate this comicstrip:
Goes back to Abraham and Sarah. Sarah thought she would never concieve so she had Abraham sleep with her handmaid, Hagar. That child was Ishmael.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:26 pm to riccoar
Here are a couple of other interesting things the Bible says about Ishmael:
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” Gen. 16: 11-12
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. Gen. 17:20
18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt, as you go toward Ashur. And they lived in hostility toward all the tribes related to them. Gen. 25: 12-18
Another interesting twist is that Hagar was Egyptian. Therefore Hagar and Abraham would have a child that is of Egytian and Hebrew ethnicities. But Abraham originated out of UR in Sumer, and at the time Arabs would not have been the population of Mesopotamia? How did Ishmael become the father of the Arab people if he wasn't related to any Arab people?
Abraham's wife Sarah was his half sister.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” Gen. 16: 11-12
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. Gen. 17:20
18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt, as you go toward Ashur. And they lived in hostility toward all the tribes related to them. Gen. 25: 12-18
Another interesting twist is that Hagar was Egyptian. Therefore Hagar and Abraham would have a child that is of Egytian and Hebrew ethnicities. But Abraham originated out of UR in Sumer, and at the time Arabs would not have been the population of Mesopotamia? How did Ishmael become the father of the Arab people if he wasn't related to any Arab people?
Abraham's wife Sarah was his half sister.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:39 pm to themunch
The Torah and Bible, lol.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:41 pm to Antoninus
quote:
The literal translation is something like "great struggle." Is that struggle internal, or is a "holy warfare?" Entire books have been written on the topic, and anyone actually interested in the the topic understands that there is no definitive answer to those questions.
This dude knows wtf he’s talking about. Listen to him.
Also there are rules to jihad. You just can’t claim world fricking jihad. That’s not how it works. It’s not like declaring shenanigans.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:46 pm to themunch
quote:
What was the book of faith for Islam before the Mohammad book?
It matters which religion they were following. The original followers of Islam lived in Arabia and were either Christians, Jews, or Polytheisic worshipers of local deities.
The most holy site for Muslims is the Kaaba in Mecca, which houses a sacred black stone. Before Islam, members of the tribes of Arabia traveled to Mecca to worship their numerous gods at that same location and same black stone.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:54 pm to ApexTiger
News printed today is taken out of context.
You don't think a centuries old religious document might be?
You don't think a centuries old religious document might be?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:22 pm to ApexTiger
quote:Your premise seems to be that the Qur'an contains the command or proclamation "Death to all Jews."
Is the Koran or Quran taken out of context?quote:is that what is says and in context?
"Death to all jews"
I think your premise is faulty. I cannot find that text anywhere in the Qur'an. Can you provide a citation?
quote:Absolutely. Hamas' actions are not consistent with the Qur'an, and good Muslims should acknowledge this.
Do peaceful Muslim's need to disowned Hamas ... ?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:56 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
Those of your women who commit lewdness, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they testify, confine them to the homes until death claims them, or God makes a way for them.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 12:58 am to touchdownjeebus
quote:
I was an SME in all of this shite and read the book in Arabic. I know how and why it was constructed, and have a few theories as well.
Please continue.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 1:04 am to ApexTiger
No
Posted on 10/13/23 at 6:34 am to Antoninus
quote:
Absolutely. Hamas' actions are not consistent with the Qur'an, and good Muslims should acknowledge this.
You're saying "kill the infidels" is not in Qur'an?
Mohammed came some 600 years after Jesus...
God Did not need another message or phophet to confuse the globe.
This islamic religion is not peaceful because it denies Jesus as the son and savior...
"No one comes to the father except through me"
Amar won't denounce Hamas while she has a Palestine flag hanging 1st at her office door...with a pride flag. An elected politician...Basically is showing you her allegiance...
I mean what the heck is going on?
We're losing America day by day asleep is what's happening by pretending all this multiculturalism is a strength...
This post was edited on 10/13/23 at 6:55 am
Posted on 10/13/23 at 6:36 am to ApexTiger
quote:
Mohammed came some 600 years after Jesus...
God Did not need another message or message to confuse the globe.
This islamic religion is not peaceful because it denies Jesus as the son and savior...
Oh boy.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 6:41 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Oh boy.
Ok...
You show me a land anywhere in the world where Islam is practiced heavily in a country you want to raise your children...
Crickets!
Its because its a Religion of a false prophet, false teachings...
The middle east is a war zone....
Tell me how its peaceful...
They put Mohammed on the same level as Jesus...
Thats why God allows the chaos...
There will never be peace with that foundation
Posted on 10/13/23 at 6:48 am to ApexTiger
quote:
You're saying "kill the infidels" is not in Qur'an?
You're replying to an Aggie with a HUGE history of making fun of Christians for being "simple-minded."
Sort of ironic he will now spend weeks defending these barbarians with posts dripping with admiration for their pedo-prophet, while NEVER daring to insult their religion the way he does Christianity.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 7:02 am to oogabooga68
quote:
oogabooga68
You’re unequivocally the least intelligent person in this thread. Would be better for everyone if you moved on.
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