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re: Is criminalising prostitution the ultimate example of "male patriarchy"?
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:07 pm to buckeye_vol
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:07 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
What makes prostitution criminlization so off, is that the behavior itself is legal, so long as there is no direct monetary transaction.
If you want to give something away for free then you don't need a license but as soon as an exchange of money for a product or service occurs then the government gets involved and usually some type of permit or license is required.
That makes sense to me.
quote:
Even more odd, is that in many ways, anybody who has taken a person out on a date, or bought them something desirable, with the goal of having sex, they have done something not much different than illegal prostitution.
Taking someone out on a date or buying them something with the hope that doing so will make the person like you enough to be willing to have sex with you is much different than making an actual contact with someone to have sex in exchange for money or a gift.
1
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:And that power is far greater in an underworld with dangerous pimps, and dangerous customers functioning in a secrecy. You force the behaviors to occur in shadows, and the people already in the shadows gain control. And what is that prostitute going to do to stop it; she's a criminal too.
The entire "job" is one of power being exercised by the "John" on the prostitute, using her to satisfy base sexual urges.
In the end, the policies you support very likely create an underworld that is far more evil, controlling, and dehumanizing than if it wasn't criminalized. You're like the environmentalists who want policies that often destroy the things they are trying to save.
But hey I'm sure you feel good about fighting the evil, since you don't have to see it.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:12 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
A prostitute:
who takes advantage of men
who are desperate for sex
by charging them hundreds of dollars
for a few minutes of sex
is a shitty person.
quote:
Now that you're articulating your presuppositions, your perception of prostitutes is making more sense. I don't think you're considering this topic with a broad enough scope.
What do you think "prostitute mentality" means?
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:17 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Sure, the elimination of the thrill and uncertainty of the "chase" is what makes prostitution unappealing.
Taking someone out on a date or buying them something with the hope that doing so will make the person like you enough to be willing to have sex with you is much different than making an actual contact with someone to have sex in exchange for money or a gift.
But that aside, it's not much different in the end--and in many ways it's far more dishonest and inefficient.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:18 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
And that power is far greater in an underworld with dangerous pimps, and dangerous customers functioning in a secrecy. You force the behaviors to occur in shadows, and the people already in the shadows gain control. And what is that prostitute going to do to stop it; she's a criminal too.
In the end, the policies you support very likely create an underworld that is far more evil, controlling, and dehumanizing than if it wasn't criminalized.
In the end, the policy you support will not end the underworld.
There will always be new desperate women who come into town willing to be illegal prostitutes and undercut the legal prostitutes.
You're just fooling yourself if you don't think so.
It's the nature of the human beast.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:19 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
What do you think "prostitute mentality" means?
Like any other profession, I'm sure there are many different mentalities. I'm sure some take pride in their craft, and enjoy it. That Freakonomics chapter about the expensive call girl was pretty interesting, and quite different than what many seem to describe.Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:26 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Sure, but like anything else, the demand for those will decrease. Not to mention, I would imagine that they would tend to be far more undesirable, and have an even smaller demand.
There will always be new desperate women who come into town willing to be illegal prostitutes and undercut the legal prostitutes.
I'm sure people would be willing to pay a lot more to go to a legitimate business with a slew of options, that have are required to recieve check ups so that are far less likely to have a bunch of diseases.
It's basic economics, and your personal morals are irrelevant to that. When demand exists, someone is going to try to meet it. Your views make it so that it's mostly (certain places aside) filled by criminals.
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 6:29 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:27 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Sure, the elimination of the thrill and uncertainty of the "chase" is what makes prostitution unappealing.
That's not what makes prostitution unappealing.
Having sex with someone is always better when it's with someone you love or have "feelings" for.
quote:
But that aside, it's not much different in the end--and in many ways it's far more dishonest and inefficient.
Just because the end is the same doesn't mean it's not much different or even far more dishonest and inefficient.
Having to work at a menial job for 20 years in order to save enough money to buy a house is much different than having the money to buy a house right away because you are a thief.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:32 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
There will always be new desperate women who come into town willing to be illegal prostitutes and undercut the legal prostitutes.
quote:
Sure, but like anything else, the demand for those will decrease. Not to mention, I would imagine that they would tend to be far more undesirable, and have an even smaller demand.
I'm sure people would be willing to pay a lot more to go to a legitimate business with a slew of options, that have are required to recieve check ups so that are far less likely to have a bunch of diseases.
Meh, there will also always be desperate men who just want to have sex with someone for the cheapest price possible.
Desperate men will know the places to go in order to find that cheap sex and it will be on the street.
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:36 pm to SirWinston
One of the only things completely legal to give away, but illegal to sell.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:39 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Sure but for many having sex is better than not having it.
Having sex with someone is always better when it's with someone you love or have "feelings" for.
I mean just like a $100+ steak at a premier steakhouse is better than one that I can grill. But having that less tasty steak is still better than not having it.
quote:But it often is, since people have different expectations and goals about the end game. And people often get hurt in those situations, but I guess that's OK since you can feel good about your moral superiority.
Just because the end is the same doesn't mean it's not much different or even far more dishonest and inefficient.
quote:Yeah it is digging. But I'm not sure how thievery compares to anything in this discussion. If anything, it's closer to the deceptive legal "games" people play to be sex than Prostitution itself.
Having to work at a menial job for 20 years in order to save enough money to buy a house is much different than having the money to buy a house right away because you are a thief.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:40 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Says who? You're just coming up with increasingly histrionic labels for a distinction you still can't articulate with satisfactory examples. Health risk? Coal miner. Psychological risk? Soldier. Risk of rape? Fox News intern.
Your fundamental humanity is being tossed aside as a prostitute. It's not that way as a janitor.
All jobs involve the exercise of power by the employer, using the employee's body. And as I said in the last post, prostitutes don't just offer their bodies. They perform services. Nobody is paying someone just to lay there. (I mean, I guess that might be a fetish for some dudes, but it's a non-central example.)
I'm gonna stop bothering to argue now because you can clearly hold serve all day claiming new and different reasons why prostitution is uniquely evil and I don't care to spend all day pointing out obvious counterexamples while you move on to a new set of reasons without addressing my previous answers.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:43 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:Well then Tinder and those hook up websites would undercut some of that, while the legal prostitution would further squeeze it out.
Meh, there will also always be desperate men who just want to have sex with someone for the cheapest price possible.
Even if it doesn't, the "dirty cheap" prices of that small black market, would not be profitable for the criminals running it. So that dirt cheap prostitute would probably be self-employed instead of working for some violent pimp.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:44 pm to FooManChoo
Wonder how many of these posters wives would do it if it were legal.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:45 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
What do you think "prostitute mentality" means?
quote:
Like any other profession, I'm sure there are many different mentalities. I'm sure some take pride in their craft, and enjoy it. That Freakonomics chapter about the expensive call girl was pretty interesting, and quite different than what many seem to describe.
Prostitutes are not the only people who have a "prostitute mentality".
Having a "prostitute mentality" means being willing to do anything legal or illegal as long as you get quick easy big bucks for doing it even if it means taking advantage of a person's personal biological and psychological needs in order to get that quick easy big money.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:48 pm to dgnx6
quote:
Wonder how many of these posters wives would do it if it were legal.
As I mentioned earlier, many would be surprised. It's obvious some posters here are thinking only of some typical street walker archetype.
Far more common are young, college-aged, educated women who spend time with older, financially secure men who buy them dinners and drinks and will occasionally assist them with their financial obligations. I see it almost every day.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:54 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:And most of those who pay for it probably feel like it's fulfilling a need.
even if it means taking advantage of a person's personal biological and psychological needs in order to get that quick easy big money.
Or course while poor Anarchysupporter continues to build his pent up rage, and hold it against the female sex, you get to feel good about your morals as his needs go unfilled.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:54 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Meh, there will also always be desperate men who just want to have sex with someone for the cheapest price possible.
quote:
Well then Tinder and those hook up websites would undercut some of that, while the legal prostitution would further squeeze it out.
Even if it doesn't, the "dirty cheap" prices of that small black market, would not be profitable for the criminals running it. So that dirt cheap prostitute would probably be self-employed instead of working for some violent pimp.
There will always be cheap illegal prostitutes walking the streets and working out of hotels and motels.
You know, that poor Hispanic woman who cleans up your hotel room then asks you if there is anything else you would like her to do.
Legalizing prostitution will never stop that from happening.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 6:57 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:No, but it would decrease it by a lot.
Legalizing prostitution will never stop that from happening.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 7:01 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
even if it means taking advantage of a person's personal biological and psychological needs in order to get that quick easy big money.
quote:
And most of those who pay for it probably feel like it's fulfilling a need.
It's not like a desperate John can bicker over prices.
They don't have any choice but to pay the high price the prostitute wants for her "services" because it's the man's biological need that needs to be fulfilled not hers.
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 7:06 pm
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