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re: If Drag Queens intentions are pure, why don't they simply wear their everyday clothes
Posted on 6/16/22 at 12:58 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 6/16/22 at 12:58 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I can only answer exactly the same question in exactly the same way so many times before it becomes boring even for me.
"If Drag Queens intentions are pure, why don't they simply wear their everyday clothes?"
Performers want to perform.
1
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:00 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Performers want to perform
Yes, we can see that Hank.....
You'll laugh later when someone explains it to you.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:02 pm to oogabooga68
quote:Ooga, you must keep odd hours. I left the thread last night at about 7pm. That is two hours before dark here.
Seeing that he feverishly posted his idiotic defense well into the night
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:03 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
As someone trying to argue above the fray,
There’s what hank claims he does and what he actually does.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:05 pm to Kattail
quote:You seem rational, so I present you with a question.
Fine, but not for CHILDREN. Get it?
Assume that a drag performer wants to read to kids. He does NOT touch the kids and does NOT flash his junk, and he does NOT discuss adult or sexual themes. He is not drunk, and he is not high. The ONLY thing that separates him from the grandfather who read in the same room last week is his over-the-top, female-style costume.
Exactly what harm do you see for the kids who are present?
This post was edited on 6/16/22 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:10 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I THINK that your are saying that "All grooming includes an element of desensitization, even if not all desensitization is part of a pattern of grooming."
I can agree with that premise.
Fair.
quote:
From there, you seem to indicate that certain "barriers" should NOT be desensitized. From your phrasing, I infer that you also acknowledge that other barriers SHOULD be desensitized. (e.g. the signing of Jackie Robinson was clearly part of a pattern of desensitization aimed to gaining acceptance for Black players in MLB).
I mean, that's a really difficult comparison. But comparing Homosexuals to African Americans opens up way too many complicated pathways, but I see your point.
quote:
Which takes us back, yet again, to the question of whether intolerance toward gays/trannies and/or drag performers falls into the first category or the second. Your use of the term "perversion" tends to indicated that you consider that particular barrier to belong in Category One.
In other words, you seem to believe that "Gay Acceptance" (shorthand) is "Bad For Society."
You are certainly entitled to that view. I just don't share it.
Drag is not gay. Nor is emblematic of Gay. Just because some of the performers are gay, drag has nothing to do with gay life as a whole. In fact, I'm pretty sure many of the historical drag community were NOT gay and that was the whole point. Whether or not someone individual performers are gay is not important. See Eddie Izzard.
What is important is what "Drag," is about, which is the perversion of male vs. female, and twisting those concepts together. That's what drag is ABOUT.
You seem to like taking a concept - like "outlandish costumes," - and reducing it's true philosophical and cultural impact via a redefinition. Drag is about "gayness," which it isn't. And drag outfits are not just outlandish costumes." Those "outlandish costumes," have a very particular cultural and moral implication that you just don't care to recognize.
And, even though your comment about Gay Acceptance is incorrect - I support ACTUAL Gay Acceptance, not that I should celebrate or champion it - , it's also incorrect on it's face. It's not about acceptance in any case, it's about celebration. Those costumes are specifically about fantastical elements of the female form made gaudy and celebratory. Not just acceptance. It's about celebrating and getting excited for moral perversion.
The fact that people miss all of the intended subtext is kind of the entire problem. And it's why we've gotten to where we are. You think drag is innocent - and it very specifically is not innocent. At all. It's meant to be subversive. It's meant to desensitize. Drag ITSELF, not even just drag reading hour, is a desensitization effort. It's meant to make us feel that some of our immoral proclivities are ok. And not even that they are just ok, that they should be cherished and celebrated.
The entire concept of drag, separate from this kid issue, is about confusing moral reality. That's the point.
This post was edited on 6/16/22 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:13 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Negative!
I look to the DoJ and the ABA, who basically define that term as a first-person activity
Sorry.
Again, take your lack of understanding up with the DOJ and/or U.S. Attorney Audrey Strauss
quote:
U.S. Attorney Audrey Strauss detailed some of the allegations against Maxwell, asserting that she helped Epstein "identify, befriend and groom minor victims of abuse"
From your link:
quote:
Aspects of sexual grooming may include:
• targeting the victim,
• securing access to and isolating the victim,
• gaining the victim’s trust, and
• controlling and concealing the relationship.
Where it occurs
Grooming may take place in numerous settings:
• in-person,
• via the Internet, or
• in institutional settings.
Definition
The U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Sex Offender Sentencing, Monitoring, Apprehending, Registering, and Tracking (SMART) uses the following definition of grooming;
Grooming is a method used by offenders that involves building trust with a child and the adults around a child in an effort to gain access to and time alone with her/him. In extreme cases, offenders may use threats and physical force to sexually assault or abuse a child. More common, though, are subtle approaches designed to build relationships with families.
The offender may assume a caring role, befriend the child or even exploit their position of trust and authority to groom the child and/or the child’s family. These individuals intentionally build relationships with the adults around a child or seek out a child who is less supervised by adults in her/his life. This increases the likelihood that the offender’s time with the child is welcomed and encouraged.
The purpose of grooming is:
• to manipulate the perceptions of other adults around the child.
• to manipulate the child into becoming a co-operating participant which reduces the likelihood of a disclosure and increases the likelihood that the child will repeatedly return to the offender.
• to reduce the likelihood of the child being believed if they do disclose.
• to reduce the likelihood of the abuse being detected.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:13 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Drag is not gay. Nor is emblematic of Gay.
Not even remotely true in 2022.
Drag is an almost exclusively gay affair.
To try and separate Drag from the Gay community in 2022 is just silly.
Whatever Historical exceptions you may dredge up as an exception is irrelevant.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:19 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Exactly what harm do you see for the kids who are present?
Identifying the basic difference between male and female is one of the most fundamental parts of a child’s social development.
Short-circuiting that process is the goal. It’s an explicit goal of Drag Queen Story Hour. And that will have far-reaching consequences for the individual and society.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:19 pm to oogabooga68
I 've never been to one of these events. I doubt anyone in this thread has either. FWIW here is a link to a youtube video that details what this is all about from the dragqueens and attending parents perspective. LINK
Personally I dont think introducing these specific discussions to preteens is useful and is probably doing more harm in gaining acceptance among parents that arent already onboard with teaching their children to be accepting of LGBTQ individuals. That being said I think those on this board that call folks like Aggie Hank a pedophile and a groomer are no different that idiots on the left that label anyone that questions CRT training as racist.
Personally I dont think introducing these specific discussions to preteens is useful and is probably doing more harm in gaining acceptance among parents that arent already onboard with teaching their children to be accepting of LGBTQ individuals. That being said I think those on this board that call folks like Aggie Hank a pedophile and a groomer are no different that idiots on the left that label anyone that questions CRT training as racist.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:20 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Potential contribution to gender confusion, dysphoric progression, imitative psychopathy ... i.e., a rapid disproportionate growth in teen transgenderism with associated emotional hazards including suicide.
Exactly what harm do you see for the kids who are present?
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:20 pm to Freauxzen
quote:Fair enough. It is certainly true that not all drag performers are gay ... just the VAST majority. The bulk of those in this thread seemed focused on the "gay element," and I wrongly imputed the same focus to you. My apologies.
The entire concept of drag, separate from this kid issue, is about confusing moral reality. That's the point.
So, your concern is not so much the "grooming" of kids (to temporarily accept the thread-majority definition), but rather the DRAG ITSELF, because drag is (by design) a critique of gender roles. You see an attack on gender roles as being bad for society.
As a natural corollary, you see it as "bad" to expose kids to a culture/behavior which (again, by design) challenges the prevailing gender norms. That is fair, regardless of whether I agree or disagree.
Thanks for the civil exchange. You can expect a few downvotes for acting like a civilized human being.
This post was edited on 6/16/22 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:24 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
The fact that people miss all of the intended subtext is kind of the entire problem.
Don’t confuse “miss” with “ignore”.
I agree with most of what you wrote except the strange assertion that drag and gay aren’t really related. A small minority, probably very small, of drag queens are straight. It’s like claiming you can’t associate the Confederate flag with white people because there are a couple of black people who display it as well. (there are).
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:24 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:The simplistic, insular, tribal mentality is certainly similar.
That being said I think those on this board that call folks like Aggie Hank a pedophile and a groomer are no different that idiots on the left that label anyone that questions CRT training as racist.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:26 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
but rather the DRAG ITSELF, because drag is (by design) a critique of gender roles.
Your ignorance is astounding.
As someone who was at one time friends with a Dragon I say with all certainty, you know not what the fk you talk about.
Many of the Dragons I knew did it as an homage, not a critique, not some sort of Social statement.
You are DESPERATE to appear edgy because one time you spent 5 minutes at a fking Drag Show and you think somehow that makes you superior.
I've been backstage to these events.
I'v been to Birthday parties attended by several dragons.
Just shut the fk up and stop trying so hard.
Jezuz, I can't wait til your caretakers come and drag you from the keyboard and put you back in your nice, comfy padded room.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:27 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
Not even remotely true in 2022.
Drag is an almost exclusively gay affair.
To try and separate Drag from the Gay community in 2022 is just silly.
Whatever Historical exceptions you may dredge up as an exception is irrelevant.
I don't disagree, I was meaning "historically," all of the sexually perverse movements have been wrapped together to topple cultural institutions. And where there might have been differences before, it's now all confusing sexual psychology to alter society. That's the full goal.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:27 pm to Flats
quote:
A small minority, probably very small, of drag queens are straight.
The OVErWHELMING MAJORITY are gay.
And those that CLAIM they are not are all too often in denial or straight up liars.
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:28 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Drag shows are hilarious and good fun.
Unbelievable!!!!! I just tuned in..Hank have you RA'd anyone yet today? 
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:29 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I don't disagree, I was meaning "historically,
I get what you're saying, but we are talking 2022.
This is a new breed of Narcissistic a-holes, not the Cher impersonators as seen in "Priscilla Queen of the Desert".
Posted on 6/16/22 at 1:30 pm to Freauxzen
quote:To what end? Answer that, and you get to "the full goal".
it's now all confusing sexual psychology to alter society
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