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re: How much better off we would all be if the South had been permitted to secede
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:06 pm to DyeHardDylan
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:06 pm to DyeHardDylan
We'd-a had it made.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:15 pm to DyeHardDylan
What would have been best for all would have been the adoption of the Corwin Amendment as the 13th Amendment to the Constitution.
Not only would the cotton states not have worried about having northern abolitionists gaining enough strength in Congress to outlaw slavery, you would have Constitutionally enshrined states rights as the law of the land.
Slavery ends in its own time with a much more peaceful and equitable transition for slaves and their descendants into society or they are resettled to Africa or their own area of the west. On top of that, the federal government remains what the founders envision, a bottom up grant of power that represents the desires of the individual states and not an imperial juggernaut that controls everything in a top down manner.
Bonus, the professional politician, at least at the federal level,, never comes into being.
quote:
No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.
Not only would the cotton states not have worried about having northern abolitionists gaining enough strength in Congress to outlaw slavery, you would have Constitutionally enshrined states rights as the law of the land.
Slavery ends in its own time with a much more peaceful and equitable transition for slaves and their descendants into society or they are resettled to Africa or their own area of the west. On top of that, the federal government remains what the founders envision, a bottom up grant of power that represents the desires of the individual states and not an imperial juggernaut that controls everything in a top down manner.
Bonus, the professional politician, at least at the federal level,, never comes into being.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:19 pm to bamadontcare
quote:
That’s a bold statement
I can’t say that I disagree
I've written an entire series of alternate history
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:22 pm to DyeHardDylan
The westward push would have been so different with 2 countries headed westward.
It would have led to two weaker nations.
We wouldn't have saved Europe from world wars. What if all of western Europe was Germany. Japan would own most of Asia.
Eventually slavery would have ended; what if it was by revolt like in Haiti? If that had happened, we may have had a white north USA and a black South.
It would have led to two weaker nations.
We wouldn't have saved Europe from world wars. What if all of western Europe was Germany. Japan would own most of Asia.
Eventually slavery would have ended; what if it was by revolt like in Haiti? If that had happened, we may have had a white north USA and a black South.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:24 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:and in that short time, even German Americans were importing the Irish
Civil War was being fought along the Missouri/Kansas border in the mid 1850's. In my opinion where the South really fricked up was allowing the North to flood Missouri with newly arrived German immigrants who were willing to fight for the North with the hopes of being rewarded for their sacrifice.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:25 pm to DyeHardDylan
No guarantee that the CSA could have actually formed a stable government with a standing army. Keep in mind, Lee lead the Army of Virginia, not the Army of the CSA. We are stronger as the USA .
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:25 pm to DyeHardDylan
We would not have been taking orders from Biden during Covid.
States rights... The right of states to govern themselves.
States rights... The right of states to govern themselves.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 10:48 pm to LongRangeCreedmoor
nothing says freedom like slavery
Posted on 8/6/25 at 11:09 pm to DyeHardDylan
There would have been no reconstruction to deal with and no carpetbaggers coming down messing things up.I think the South would have rejoined down the road once slavery ended.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 11:13 pm to Stidham8
quote:
We’d be infinitely worse. The United States would’ve been a whole Europe of countries.
With the power vacuum you’d undoubtedly see Japan and Germany as the two major superpowers in the world. The Soviet Union wouldn’t have been able to defeat the Nazis without the US lend lease program and the opening of a second front in France. There would’ve been no one to slow down Japan taking all of Southeast Asia and the Pacific.
Japan and Germany likely end up taking down the Soviet Union and dividing the territory.
WWII, most likely, would not have occurred if the US had not been involved in WWI/Treaty of Versailles. European wars before this generally just petered out and the loser ceded territory.
Posted on 8/6/25 at 11:25 pm to Big Wes
quote:
Absolutely not. Great Britain wanted to Balkanize the US, to keep us under their thumb.
Well Britain wanted a lot of retarded things that were completely out of the question.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 12:44 am to DyeHardDylan
We would probably be like South Africa now if the South won
Posted on 8/7/25 at 2:42 am to SammyTiger
quote:
the confederates didn’t seem to think so
Technology and innovation were on the way to making slavery obsolete. Slaves were replaced with machinery just like how AI, Automation, and Robotics are going to replace huge swaths of current American workforce in coming years.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 5:27 am to DyeHardDylan
quote:would we have kept the constitution and bill of rights?
How much better off we would all be if the South had been permitted to secede
Posted on 8/7/25 at 5:52 am to Jason9782003
It’s hard to imagine the Confederacy granting democratic voting rights to Black people after the abolition of slaver, especially given that they would have been the majority population in many Southern regions. Politically, it likely would have resembled something like modern-day South Africa under apartheid. There’s a strong chance it could have led to a second civil conflict, this time between Black and white population, within the Confederate States themselves.
This post was edited on 8/7/25 at 5:55 am
Posted on 8/7/25 at 5:58 am to DyeHardDylan
So, we’re still fighting this war 150+ years later? Get over it, Col Reb.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 6:04 am to DyeHardDylan
No unified United States….
….no Mexican war…Mexico controls Cali/arizona/NM/NV/colorado
…..no 54.40 or fight. Canada/UK controls the Pacific Northwest.
……no Spanish American war. No Philippians. Spain likely loses to other European. Cuba controlling gulf access.
…..No Sewaed’s follly (no Alaska) Russia has foothold in North America
…..north and south fight over Midwest.
….no Mexican war…Mexico controls Cali/arizona/NM/NV/colorado
…..no 54.40 or fight. Canada/UK controls the Pacific Northwest.
……no Spanish American war. No Philippians. Spain likely loses to other European. Cuba controlling gulf access.
…..No Sewaed’s follly (no Alaska) Russia has foothold in North America
…..north and south fight over Midwest.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 6:10 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
In my opinion where the South really fricked up was allowing the North to flood Missouri with newly arrived German immigrants who were willing to fight for the North with the hopes of being rewarded for their sacrifice.
The north had the biggest draft riots in this country's history. They had to have immigrants for the Army.
That continued after the war. Most of the guys dying at the Little Bighorn were immigrants, too.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 6:13 am to DyeHardDylan
I'll let Bocephus explain it.
Posted on 8/7/25 at 7:00 am to leeman101
quote:
I think the South would have rejoined down the road once slavery ended.
I think there's a stronger argument that the US and CS would fight again in the 20th century wars, honestly.
The US would look nothing like it does. Utah and Mormon confederation would be a separate country. California and the West Coast would likely be, as well (yes, I know California was already established in 1861, but I don't think it would have stayed that way had it been essentially bisected).
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