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Started By
Message
re: Has The Covid Vaccine Hurt The Vaccine Industry As A Whole?
Posted on 12/14/23 at 9:54 am to LuckyTiger
Posted on 12/14/23 at 9:54 am to LuckyTiger
I'll never get another one.
1
Posted on 12/14/23 at 10:00 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
I'll never get another one.
I will get another when i’m more afraid of the disease than the vaccine.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 10:03 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You're holding the average person to a standard of medical understanding no different than the one you hold yourself to?
No, I'm holding them to the same standard of argumentation. We've had some incredibly bad arguments from that emanated from public health that were extremely damaging, and worse, there wasn't any real consequence to those bad arguments. In order to regain trust of the public, we have to reject the bad arguments, especially ones that emanate from ourselves (such as Fauci's famous 'I am the science' statement) and make structurally sound, well-reasoned arguments in their place.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 10:06 am to reddy tiger
quote:
You don't think certain entities like Fauci, the WHO, the government, mainstream media censoring and outright denying possibilities of lab leak and other covid info, China, Cuomo, Pfizer, etc...bear any responsibility for that outcome?
You only think those things because of right wing media. No critical, objective examination of the evidence supports these batshit positions.
Jesus you are one batshat for brains individual. So you use political views to form your opinion on this issue? All of the evidence points to you being wrong in so many ways that it is laughable. People like you that are incapable of critical thinking is a major issue that has damaged a once great country. Congrats on being a village idot.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 10:08 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
and make structurally sound, well-reasoned arguments in their place.
A huge, across the board "Mea Culpa" would be a great starting point, don't you agree?
One can't rebuild that trust without a large scale admission of not only being wrong about many things but an admission of nefarious behavior on the part of many.
There were threats to peoples' lives and livelihoods for not simply "trusting the Science" and people aren't going to forget that just because the experts are ready to "move on".
Posted on 12/14/23 at 11:24 am to LuckyTiger
Yep, no vaccines for me. In fact, anything recommend by the government is off limits for me. I did not take Covid shots. Covid is the biggest scam in American history.
Global Warming is second, so far,
Global Warming is second, so far,
Posted on 12/14/23 at 11:39 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
This ^^^ is not the fault of the American people, these institutions brought this lack of trust and integrity on themselves
A-fking men....
It's hilarious to see the "experts" lamenting the lack of trust as tho' it weren't 100% their fault.
And of course they act like we should all just simply IGNORE the fact that so many of them wanted to DESTROY those of us who wouldn't bow down and take everything they said as Gospel.
Fk the "experts", they need to start with a long, drawn out apology and work from there.
Anything else is a non-start.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 12:12 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Not a reasonable position. Sorry. You cannot hold an average person to the same standard of argumentation as someone with legions more education and field experience.
No, I'm holding them to the same standard of argumentation.
Argument requires background knowledge and technical understanding or it requires citing of trusted information sources. If the former is not at play, and with the majority of Americans it isn't, then trusted source citation is the fall back.
Trust is key. How the Hell doe the average American know who to trust?
When mainstream """science""" has been objectively proven untrustworthy, there is a logical seeking of alternate information. Meanwhile, untrustworthy """science""" screams that those alternate sources are untrustworthy.
How should that proclamation of """science""" affect opinions of the average person regarding the alternate sources?
It's like Hitler screaming Soros the Jew is a bad dude. In such an instance, Hitler would be right. However, Hitler being Hitler, his claim generates nothing but mass sympathy for Soros, who is, in reality, a POS. Therein is the completely uncredible position """science""" finds itself, and it leaves the door wide open for popular and predictable trust of charlatanism.
We're in a bad spot.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 12:35 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not a reasonable position. Sorry. You cannot hold an average person to the same standard of argumentation as someone with legions more education and field experience.
I mean, I'm talking about argument structures, not the actual content of those arguments. If they are making fallacious arguments which can justify a whole set of false conclusions, we should reject those arguments on structural grounds alone.
I'm suggesting that playing a more active role narrative shaping by just information sharing, extending the job of the physician to translator of complicated information to the public at large.
While people might appeal to those poor arguments in place of anything else, there isn't an excuse for them. Bad arguments are just that, bad arguments.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 12:44 pm to reddy tiger
Yet it's not us anti-c19 vax purebloods dying suddenly or developing myocarditis. But hey, I fully support you and like minded geniuses staying up to date on your boosters.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 12:53 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Argument requires background knowledge and technical understanding or it requires citing of trusted information sources.
The whole crux of the argument.
It isn't about being able to spout all sorts of technical jargon in certain field, it's about being ethical and honest.
All the techno-babble in the world isn't going to repair this relationship.
It starts with a mea-culpa and and apology for the overt Narcissism of the people who literally wanted to DESTROY people who wouldn't bow to them and didn't think "because I said so" was a valid reason for possibly life changing decisions.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 12:56 pm to LuckyTiger
No the medical industry has hurt vaccines as a whole. If your doctor suggested the vaccine, they are part of the problem.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 1:01 pm to LuckyTiger
Considering the fact that we changed the definition of "vaccine" due to the failure of this shot to actually do what a vaccine is supposed to do, I would say no one really knows what a true vaccine is any longer.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 3:16 pm to KingOfTheWorld
quote:
But something in the very beginning of the plandemic made my spidey senses perk up. I couldn’t put my finger on it. Something wasn’t right about this dystopian nightmare I saw evolving before my eyes. I remember the first time I went to Walmart and everybody was masked and being herded through one door a few people at a time. I felt like I was in an apocalypse or zombie movie set. Of course we know now that I and millions of others were right in our mistrust of what we were told.
All that to say, I will never again trust government medical agencies or most of the medical community on vaccines or anything “new” or “mandatory” without extreme vetting and years of proof. I’m not anti-medicine. I’m anti-medical tyranny and being lied to.
I am an engineer and a large part of my career has been spent doing basic research. Solving problems and discovering reality requires good data, so I have always set up experiments to give the most meaningful data. With good data, you can see trends earlier that lead to solutions or better focus. The thing I found most troubling was the lack of good data and protocols that intentionally distorted data. Distorting data by paying for covid outcomes was a huge red flag. If you pay someone $36K for checking a particular box, it should be no surprise that you get a whole bunch of checked boxes, and when you do that the checked box is no longer data on covid. I think we will find that many people were literally killed for financial incentives attached to certain protocols and the fear was certainly ramped up because of money.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 3:31 pm to reddy tiger
quote:
Conservatives died at much higher rates after the vaccine was introduced
Link? Are they starting to put "political affiliation" on death certificates where covid is cause of death?
Posted on 12/14/23 at 3:39 pm to Maxx99
Posted on 12/14/23 at 4:15 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:How does the average Joe make that determination in this environment?
Bad arguments are just that, bad arguments.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 4:16 pm to reddy tiger
quote:
You only think those things because of right wing media. No critical, objective examination of the evidence supports these batshit positions.
Try this search term -SARS coronavirus bat chimera 2014 Wuhan NIH. You will find two papers, one residing on the Wuhan Institute of Virology server and the other at the NIH. They outline the creation of a new virus that is much like covid. Take note of how they ran the resulting virus through human lung tissue. It probably is not covid, but is the basis for research that led to the experiment that created covid. Get your head out of your arse before you kill yourself.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 4:43 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
How does the average Joe make that determination in this environment?
Well I’m not trying to make an equivalence between the scale of the poor arguments. I’m saying that in addition to rejecting the poor arguments from public health officials, we have to fill in the blanks so that people are prepared to intake new information and place into some context they can understand. The problem, I think we both agree, is the fact that public officials made poor arguments in the first place. Anything we try in the face of that is just damage control.
Posted on 12/14/23 at 4:52 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:I'm not sure at all we agree on that.
The problem, I think we both agree, is the fact that public officials made poor arguments in the first place.
IMO, the problem is the fact that public health officials were incompetent in the first place, and subsequently chose to lie, deflect, then lie about their deflections.
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