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re: For people who don't like the fact we nuked Japan
Posted on 12/1/21 at 9:39 pm to dinosaur
Posted on 12/1/21 at 9:39 pm to dinosaur
It's sickening that all these anti-nukes are speaking from their ivory towers, isolated from the realities of the world as it existed in 1945. They have no concept of what the world opinion was re the Japanese back then, and there was no differentiating between the Jap soldiers & the Japanese civilians. They were universally hated, so there was no compunction about using the bombs. Today, it's "in" to hate America.
Posted on 12/1/21 at 9:44 pm to Zach
100% behind you and your statement is spot on! It’s very simple and very true. As horrible as those bombs were, they also saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Japanese. Many are alive today, as are their offspring. It was brutal but it worked. Period. This also does not take into consideration how many millions have been saved because humanity is too afraid to start a large scale war again between the major nations due to its impact. These are facts and are not disputable. God bless those men who had to put the weight of a nation on their back to accomplish this task. May they Rest In Peace, as well as the victims of this act.
Posted on 12/1/21 at 9:58 pm to Strannix
I grew up 45 minutes from Hanford, Washington. It was where they built the bomb. My high school played them in sports. Their high school was the Richland Bombers.(Still is last I checked) The kids that went there felt their parents that worked there during WWII saved the world. They were right, they did. Their basketball uniforms had mushroom cloud on the front. Their letterman jackets had a mushroom cloud on the back with the words "Proud of the Cloud" above it. The bombs at H and N ended the war. You can argue about how many lives would have been lost in an invasion (on both sides) all you want, but the fact is those bombs saved American lives, and that is the salient point. They started the war, we ended it. You start a war do not expect any compassion until your unconditional surrender. That being said, I was born in Japan, lived in Japan, and have Japanese friends. WWII was a tragic event in our relationship, but fortunately we worked hard to heal those wounds. Don't try to rewrite history.
Posted on 12/1/21 at 10:04 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Why not just firebomb more and more and more. No reason to invade. None.
60 Japanese cities had been firebombed.
One night of firebombing Tokyo killed more civilians than either of the nukes.
The Japs were not surrendering due to the firebombing they had already withstood. So, explain why firebombing some more cities would have changed their mind.
Posted on 12/1/21 at 10:10 pm to Zach
If you are President Truman meeting mother’s that lost sons in the invasion of Japan how do you explain to them that we had these bombs that could have ended the war and saved their sons lives but chose not to use them?
You can’t and call yourself President. You would have betrayed a trust.
You can’t and call yourself President. You would have betrayed a trust.
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:01 pm to troyt37
That's not what I said and you are making quite the leap. The reason we dropped nukes was not to save lives it was to beat Russia to the punch. frick off.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 7:25 am to Keltic Tiger
quote:
It's sickening that all these anti-nukes are speaking from their ivory towers, isolated from the realities of the world as it existed in 1945.
This is a tactic from the left. They want to judge historical events and people based on what the world looks like in 2021. This is how they're attempting to dehumanize the Founding Fathers.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 7:49 am to Landmass
quote:
The reason we dropped nukes was not to save lives it was to beat Russia to the punch.
quote:
you are making quite the leap
Keep digging, I'm sure you'll be out of that hole in no time.
The biggest obstacle to neutralizing Japan was public opinion, and the cost in lives to do so. Blockading Japan meant starvation for millions of Japanese citizens. Invading meant the deaths of hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, and very likely millions of Japanese citizens. Russia could have hopped in on Japan any time in the previous 4 years, but chose not to. They just knew there would be plenty of Japanese women to rape if they got in at the end.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 8:04 am to Notrub14
quote:
The traditional Christian moral teaching that runs from St. Augustine through St. Thomas and on into the modern period explicitly condemns doing evil (e.g., killing innocent non-combatants) because some kind of utilitarian calculus says the net result is good.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 8:12 am to Notrub14
quote:
The traditional Christian moral teaching that runs from St. Augustine through St. Thomas and on into the modern period explicitly condemns doing evil (e.g., killing innocent non-combatants) because some kind of utilitarian calculus says the net result is good.
St. Augustine and St. Thomas lived in a time where civilians weren't part of the battle space. By the 19th century, wars began to be won in the factories of cities just as much as on the battlefields of Europe and North America. The civilian populace *became* part of the war effort. In an industrialized world, where the weapons of war are being fed by the fires of industry, do civilians not become enemy combatants since they are making the tools that then go on to kill soldiers on the battlefields?
This post was edited on 12/2/21 at 8:13 am
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:08 pm to Landmass
quote:You forgot the "in my opinion" part of that sentence. The historical details could lead one to that assumption, but the full story says otherwise. The Russians simply did not have the resources after the heavy losses of manpower and equipment fighting Germany to go up against the entire nation of Japan on their home turf, and they knew it.
The reason we dropped nukes was not to save lives it was to beat Russia to the punch.
This post was edited on 12/2/21 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:37 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
St. Augustine and St. Thomas lived in a time where civilians weren't part of the battle space. By the 19th century, wars began to be won in the factories of cities just as much as on the battlefields of Europe and North America. The civilian populace *became* part of the war effort. In an industrialized world, where the weapons of war are being fed by the fires of industry, do civilians not become enemy combatants since they are making the tools that then go on to kill soldiers on the battlefields?
Perhaps some civilians. The nuclear bombs, and other bombing of cities, also killed 5 year olds, 2 year olds and babies in the womb. It's morally indefensible unless you hold the position that no act is morally right or wrong in itself, but is only made right or wrong by the net consequences from the act.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:40 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
Russians simply did not have the resources
That's discounting the fact that the Japanese were ruthless, vicious, tenacious, and fanatical. Nobody wanted to go dig those bastards out of their home turf. Nobody. Not even the Russians. The carnage was ghastly as it was. It would have been x1000 if you had to invade.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:55 pm to Landmass
quote:
The reason we dropped nukes was not to save lives it was to beat Russia to the punch
You are somewhat correct, but it was as much to show the Russians what we had in our arsenal as was to end the War in the Pacific before the Russian put boots on the ground on the Japanese mainland.
H & N were military targets but were never bombed conventionally though they were easy targets by 1945.
They were left in pristine condition for a reason, and that is fact.
Regardless of the methods utilized to end the war in the Pacific, be it nukes, incendiaries, blockades, or US/USSR invasion, the loss of lives to the Japanese population would have been five-fold if the former of the four wasn't utilized, and it preserved the lives of tens of thousands of US soldiers.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:56 pm to Notrub14
quote:
Perhaps some civilians. The nuclear bombs, and other bombing of cities, also killed 5 year olds, 2 year olds and babies in the womb. It's morally indefensible unless you hold the position that no act is morally right or wrong in itself, but is only made right or wrong by the net consequences from the act.
Morally indefensible to whom?
You act as if you could conquer the world as long as you put pregnant women and children out in front of you, and if anyone did anything about it, their actions would be morally indefensible. Collateral damage has been a part of war, since war has been a part of the human experience. The last war that is fought on this earth will have collateral damage.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 1:01 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
You forgot the "in my opinion" part of that sentence. The historical details could lead one to that assumption, but the full story says otherwise. The Russians simply did not have the resources after the heavy losses of manpower and equipment fighting Germany to go up against the entire nation of Japan on their home turf, and they knew it.
You are correct. The video on the planned invasion covered this. The Russians committed almost nothing to invading Japan. They were staggering at the time through heavy losses against Germany. Their primary focus was on grabbing European ground, not Japan.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 1:23 pm to Notrub14
quote:
. The nuclear bombs, and other bombing of cities, also killed 5 year olds, 2 year olds and babies in the womb.
It's quite easy to sit in relative comfort (myself included) and discuss war. War is horrible and just war theory is needed.
But I would also mention that my dad was once a baby in the womb, a 2Y old, a 5Y old. And as a 16Y civilian he joined the USN and was sent to Italy. They were to redeploy to Japan when the war ended.
My point is when Japan began the war it compelled a lot of civilians to become soldiers and sailors. So it's hard for me to be concerned about their civilians when their nation forced our civilians to become soldiers.
FTR, I don't think Japan would've surrendered without the bombs. Would have to hear their emperor again but I think he hinted at they knew if they didn't surrender they would cease to exist as a people in history.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 2:21 pm to Notrub14
quote:
Perhaps some civilians. The nuclear bombs, and other bombing of cities, also killed 5 year olds, 2 year olds and babies in the womb. It's morally indefensible unless you hold the position that no act is morally right or wrong in itself, but is only made right or wrong by the net consequences from the act.
Alright, fine. Instead of dropping the bombs, how would you have tried to end the war? Firebombing the unholy hell out of Tokyo didn't make them surrender.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 2:31 pm to Notrub14
Two generals who order men into combat.
I'll listen to the boots first.
I'll listen to the boots first.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 2:33 pm to Zach
quote:
there are 120,000 purple heart medals in storage.
They were all minted in 1945. Every purple heart medal awarded in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or any other military event from 1945 till today is from the storage of 500,000 made in 1945.
That's how many casualties we estimated for our invasion of Japan.
I'm all for the bomb, but those purple hearts were probably manufactured as a reward to one of FDR's campaign contributors.
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