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Message
re: Federal Gov School Voucher Program to launch in January
Posted on 10/8/26 at 10:48 pm to BTROleMisser
Posted on 10/8/26 at 10:48 pm to BTROleMisser
quote:
So, do you believe Lindsay Clancy is guilty or not guilty?
Of course that stupid bitch believes killing children is ok. She’s a leftist ghoul
Posted on 10/8/26 at 11:39 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Do you agree?
No.
Also, Friedman wrote that in 1955, when public schools still educated students.
Finally, he also advocated for the vouchers you seem to be against.
Posted on 10/8/26 at 11:45 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
False
No, that seems to be true.
Posted on 10/8/26 at 11:56 pm to UtahCajun
quote:
We see it in other countries.
Which ones?
I'd wager that the vast majority of other countries doing well with public education do not universally attempt to track all students along academic paths like we do.
Also, I looked at the top five countries in public education and only Finland had an above median percentage of single parenthood in the OECD. The other four were significantly below median for single parenthood.
The US has the highest single parenthood rate in the OECD.
Also, those five countries are much more homogeneous racially/ethnically than the US.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 7:16 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
I'd wager that the vast majority of other countries doing well with public education do not universally attempt to track all students along academic paths like we do
It is early and am still drinking my coffee, but not sure what you mean. Do mean shoehorning everyone into the same curriculum vs allowing more flexible curricula? If that is what you mean, looking at some of the higher ranking education systems not in a country called "China", you would be correct.
If that is not what you meant, forgive me.
quote:
Also, I looked at the top five countries in public education and only Finland had an above median percentage of single parenthood in the OECD. The other four were significantly below median for single parenthood.
The US has the highest single parenthood rate in the OECD.
Also, those five countries are much more homogeneous racially/ethnically than the US.
Not even gonna attempt to argue here.
The USA does have "unique" challenges in education as compared to most of the world. Everything you bring up is very valid.
Forced association
Kids whose primary language at home is not English
Single parent families
Compulsory admittance of problem children
There are a lot of issues here and as I said, I do not have the answers. At least not the answers most would want to hear.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 7:26 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Also, Friedman wrote that in 1955, when public schools still educated students.
I have not thought much about schooling since the last one graduated in 2008. I will say this however:
The amount that schooling changed from my days in school (1970-mid80's) to when mine were in school (1990's - 2000's) was mind blowing. The teachers relied on me to teach the kids. The amount of homework and lessons sent home were mind boggling. I even had meetings to voice my concern. It went nowhere.
From what I gathered, issues with students caused this. Schools had lost the ability to discipline kids and could no longer even expel them. They were forced to keep problem kids in class with other kids.
I do not even wish to know what education is like today.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 9:43 am to Jbird
quote:Competition doesn't ensure a high quality product, especially when the funding source is government money and accountability is delayed through once annual state testing -- And schools aren't even given SPS scores until their third year of operation. SPS scores= School Performance Scores. The Louisiana Dept of Education calculates these based on standardized test scores and some other secret metrics. So if a voucher school receives public money, it's not even really being evaluated at all for its first two years.
Competition is good.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 9:47 am to UtahCajun
quote:
Forced association
Kids whose primary language at home is not English
Single parent families
Compulsory admittance of problem children
There are a lot of issues here and as I said, I do not have the answers. At least not the answers most would want to hear.
Not only that, but if we consider Friedman's stated goals for a stable democratic society, he includes a shared set of values. The shear geographic size of the USA presents plenty of challenges attempting to establish that. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot to take into consideration.
Rugged individualism seems to be a shared value, until someone gets weird and wants to be transgender or homosexual.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 9:56 am to UtahCajun
quote:When I was teaching, I never gave homework. Of course, I taught little kids. No one in K-3 grades should get homework. It goes against my educational philosophy.
The amount that schooling changed from my days in school (1970-mid80's) to when mine were in school (1990's - 2000's) was mind blowing. The teachers relied on me to teach the kids. The amount of homework and lessons sent home were mind boggling. I even had meetings to voice my concern. It went nowhere.
quote:Teachers know a lot of behavior management tricks to deal with problematic kids. I taught in Orleans Parish public schools for 8 years. The key to maintaining a safe and productive classroom is experienced teachers. Groups like Teach For America supply cheap, inexperienced labor for schools and student that are already struggling. TFA's model sends "corps members" to urban schools for 2 years assignments, then they usually go to grad school. TFA people pad their resumes and make a living while students suffer. But hey, the schools are at least staffed I guess.
From what I gathered, issues with students caused this. Schools had lost the ability to discipline kids and could no longer even expel them. They were forced to keep problem kids in class with other kids.
I do not even wish to know what education is like today.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 10:09 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Not only that, but if we consider Friedman's stated goals for a stable democratic society, he includes a shared set of values. The shear geographic size of the USA presents plenty of challenges attempting to establish that. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot to take into consideration
I once saw a map of the Roman Empire, at it's largest, superimposed over the lower 48. Just the lower 48 is a much larger area than that was and we have much more cultures trying to live together than Rome ever did. But it is even deeper than that.
State and local governments have the bulk of control of public schooling, which during Friedman's time may have been ok. But the differences from neighborhood to neighborhood even in a small city of 75,000, like Iowa City, is huge nowadays. There are more people from more cultures than he experienced and we all self-segregate. I do not know if his ideas would still be viable today.
quote:
Rugged individualism seems to be a shared value, until someone gets weird and wants to be transgender or homosexual
As much as it pains me to say, I think individualism as a whole is in it's death throes in tUSA. We are almost fully into group think. Yes, we are fractured into many, many different groups, but as you can tell from this forum, echo chambers are the norm today and not the exception. Individual thought that breaks from the norm of any group, is not well recieved. You seem to be the victim of that more times than not.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 10:12 am to Jake88
quote:
This isnt "freedom", it's a government handout. One of those handouts "conservatives" love.
how is a tax credit a "handout?"
Posted on 10/9/26 at 10:15 am to 4cubbies
quote:
When I was teaching, I never gave homework. Of course, I taught little kids. No one in K-3 grades should get homework. It goes against my educational philosophy
That is a good philosophy. Let kids be kids. Seems we want them to be students full time these days, even on their "off" time. Mine worked more than I did and I was the one with the job.
quote:
Groups like Teach For America supply cheap, inexperienced labor for schools and student that are already struggling. TFA's model sends "corps members" to urban schools for 2 years assignments, then they usually go to grad school. TFA people pad their resumes and make a living while students suffer. But hey, the schools are at least staffed I guess.
I was not aware of this.
Do you have a solution or have you decided it isn't worth the fight? Bureaucracies tend to wear people down.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 10:45 am to UtahCajun
quote:
Do you have a solution or have you decided it isn't worth the fight?
TFA is deeply entrenched in the fabric of public education now. I'm pretty sure they get a lot of federal money.
I guess the solution would be stop villainizing teachers in this country. Stop blaming teachers for every parental and societal failing. Respect them and pay them decently. Then more people would stay in teaching and there wouldn't be such a demand for groups like Teach For America.
quote:Yep. Left one bureaucracy (schools) for another (local government). Now I'm moving on to the only job more depressing than the ones I left - fighting against the death penalty! I'm a glutton for punishment.
Bureaucracies tend to wear people down.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 11:27 am to supatigah
quote:The donation is a tax credit. Im talking about the people who receive the money to pay for a school they otherwise couldn't afford.
how is a tax credit a "handout?"
Posted on 10/9/26 at 12:11 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
School vouchers are generally saddled with fraud.
Same with voting and any government program.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 1:23 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Stop blaming teachers for every parental and societal failing.
There are a lot of septum-pierced blue-hairs out there trying to push their DSA and gender-dysphoric propaganda, but from the many, many teachers I've known over the decades the brunt of the issue comes from poor parenting (see: the 6yr old who shot his teacher the other day and the police-cam video of him shouting "frick you" at every adult in the room).
I would even entertain the argument that the existence of those types of teachers are allowed primarily from a lack of enough parents being involved enough in their kids' school and with their school board.
quote:
Then more people would stay in teaching and there wouldn't be such a demand for groups like Teach For America.
I think that's a solid point and I think a lot of it goes somewhat to what another poster said about teachers not disciplining in schools. A lot of that has come from pressures from the federal government based on student behavior expectations (see: Arne Duncan's infamous "Dear Colleagues" letter and the work which followed). What I mean is that the ability to discipline was lessened because it gets reported and when that report isn't what the Dept of Education wants to see, they show up and start "investigating" (meaning if you aren't doing what they want, you could lose funding).
This leads school administrators to coming up with ways to avoid having to report those disciplinary issues in the first place (like making the student write out why they think throwing a desk across a classroom was wrong and letting that be the penalty rather than being sent directly to the principal's office) and those ways often end up directly impacting a teacher's ability to maintain discipline in a classroom.
Why Meadow Died was eye-opening for me.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 3:14 pm to Jake88
quote:
The donation is a tax credit. Im talking about the people who receive the money to pay for a school they otherwise couldn't afford.
quote:
The Education Freedom Tax Credit supports national education choice. A tax credit reduces Federal income tax dollar-for-dollar, unlike a deduction, which reduces taxable income.
The credit is available to U.S. citizens and residents who make qualified cash contributions to SGOs. Under Treasury’s proposed rules, each spouse may claim up to $1,700 based on that spouse’s own qualified contributions, for up to $3,400 on a joint return.
SGOs use these funds to provide scholarships to students to pay for education expenses, such as attending a school of choice or accessing other education-related services and products. Families apply to SGOs for scholarships.
Qualifying scholarships are excluded from federal taxable income; a family receiving a scholarship does not need to owe federal income tax to benefit. The donor’s annual credit limit does not limit the size of a student’s scholarship.
SGOs determine scholarship amounts based on their missions, available funds, and students’ qualified expenses; awards may not exceed the expenses they cover.
so in your mind a scholarship is a handout?
Posted on 10/9/26 at 3:16 pm to supatigah
quote:
so in your mind a scholarship is a handout?
This type of "scholarahip", yes.
Especially based on the following...
quote:
Qualifying scholarships are excluded from federal taxable income; a family receiving a scholarship does not need to owe federal income tax to benefit
Posted on 10/9/26 at 3:31 pm to Jake88
you are trying really hard to take a very common thing and make it bad for what? internet points?
I donate to a scholarship charity at the LSU Foundation, LSU gives these scholarships to some kids on need and some kids on merits and some kids on need and merit
none of these kids or their parents pay income tax on the scholarship because it is not income
I get a tax break because I donated to a 501c3
did those kids get a handout in your mind?
the program in the OP is no different, except you donate to a gov managed charity program and not a private program
I donate to a scholarship charity at the LSU Foundation, LSU gives these scholarships to some kids on need and some kids on merits and some kids on need and merit
none of these kids or their parents pay income tax on the scholarship because it is not income
I get a tax break because I donated to a 501c3
did those kids get a handout in your mind?
the program in the OP is no different, except you donate to a gov managed charity program and not a private program
Posted on 10/9/26 at 4:13 pm to 4cubbies
Great. More Islamic schools.
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