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re: Exactly how did Zelensky start his war with Russia?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
B. If your theory was correct, where was the aggression in those "two Russian adjacent countries"? If this was an honest belief of Russia, why did they only start this talking point in 2022?
My 2 cents…
I believe they did raise strong objections in 2004 when Estonia and Latvia joined, but Russia was in economic and political turmoil throughout the 90s and early 00s. They were not strong enough geopolitically to respond aggressively and were focused domestically.
This all changed when Putin consolidated power and energy prices skyrocketed mid 2000s - 2013 which Russia benefited significantly from and was able to modernize their military and economy.
Also Ukraine holds a very different place in the Russian psyche than do the Baltic states. Ukraine is intimately tied to Russian identity and seen as “part of the Russian world” by people in that region.
The idea of Ukraine aligning with the West and potentially joining NATO probably struck at Russia’s core sense of regional influence and “buffer zone” security. This sense of existential stakes was arguably much higher in Ukraine than in the Baltics.
2
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:37 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
Zelensky took over from the acting president,
"Took over"
That's quite the euphemism.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:37 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
no evidence of involvement at allll .
None of those pictures are from 2013
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Oh FFS!
why did they only start this talking point in 2022?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:39 pm to Samso
quote:
Also Ukraine holds a very different place in the Russian psyche than do the Baltic states. Ukraine is intimately tied to Russian identity and seen as “part of the Russian world” by people in that region.
I 100% agree with you here.
This is why Russia targeted the EU integration. EU integration would put Ukraine on a path of development where, in time, they would surpass Russia. THAT is an actual existential threat to Russia for the reasons you just stated in a way "NATO on our border" never will be.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:40 pm to TigahTeeth
quote:
Continuously bombing Russians in Donbas after Putin for years told him not too.
And why were Russian military in Donbas? Because they invaded Ukraine!
Don’t invade Ukraine and the Ukrainian military won’t bomb you.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:40 pm to stout
This x 1,000,000
Additionally, reference the coup in 2014.
Additionally, reference the coup in 2014.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:41 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Oh FFS!
Go find me all the media sourcing from 2014 discussing how NATO was referenced as a cause for anything to do with the various forms of Russian aggression in that year.
I can find you lots discussing Russia (and its sphere of influence within Ukraine) taking issue with EU integration (as I've posted many).
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:44 pm to TheShmoo
The Ukrainian has been a cadet state for the total of its existence. They are unable or unwilling to govern themselves as a 1st world country and honestly should be either a cadet state to a European power.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:44 pm to TheShmoo
Didnt start 3 years ago, took a decade for NATO to train up that army, equip and build it out. Took 2 years for Russia to destroy it, now they are using conscripts burning alive in fox holes as a stalling mechanism, while their bureaucrats sell out their lands and resources to come to some agreement where they are partitioned.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:44 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's quite the euphemism.
Well considering he eventually gained power as a result of an actual coup in Ukraine, there really isnt a successional line that gets you from 2014 and the start of this war, to Zelensky asking for fast track into NATO
The 2014 revolution started the war. Zelensky greatly benefited from that coup. He wants to protect his benefit using NATO
Of course he doesnt want to end the war
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:47 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
Well considering he eventually gained power as a result of an actual coup in Ukraine
That's a talking point. Not a fact.
quote:
there really isnt a successional line that gets you from 2014 and the start of this war, to Zelensky asking for fast track into NATO
The war started in 2013, not 2014.
quote:
The 2014 revolution started the war. Zelensky greatly benefited from that coup.
There is no relationship between Zelensky and 2013 or 2014, which separates him entirely from the purported coup and purported Western puppet.
When Zelensky beat out the purported Western puppet in 2019, it was a sign that he ousted whatever purported Western influence led to that purported coup.
It was a rejection, not a continuation. That's why linking Zelensky to 2014 is irrational and illogical.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:47 pm to TheShmoo
Putin invaded. He had his reasons but I don’t really GAF. The dying and plundering of taxpayers money in the name of corporate forever war must end.
So what’s the point of the thread?
So what’s the point of the thread?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's why linking Zelensky to 2014 is irrational and illogical.
Wut? He does it himself
quote:
Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky linked historic pro-democracy protests in Kyiv one decade ago to Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Describing the demonstrations on Maidan square as the "first victory" of the war with Russia, he said, “The first victory in today's war took place. A victory against indifference. A victory of courage. The victory of the Revolution of Dignity.”
Russia also always held that the revolution was a plan by Western govts to force them into war. And linking Zelensky to it
quote:
The Kremlin described Ukraine's 2014 revolution as a foreign-sponsored coup which defined Ukraine's current pro-Western political position.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, “The fact that it was sponsored from abroad has been acknowledged, directly and indirectly, by representatives of foreign countries. That is no secret to anyone.”
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:57 pm to AllbyMyRelf
Well, you see, the Russian state started to exist as a centralized state in 862."
This is the real answer. UKR did not in any real sense provoke the Russian invasion, and the purported justifications--the CIA tampering with UKR politics, etc.--are risible as explanations for a full scale invasion. Putin believes that UKR should be under the Russian thumb. He's always wanted UKR and that is why he attempted to conquer it, and he will likely succeed.
This is the real answer. UKR did not in any real sense provoke the Russian invasion, and the purported justifications--the CIA tampering with UKR politics, etc.--are risible as explanations for a full scale invasion. Putin believes that UKR should be under the Russian thumb. He's always wanted UKR and that is why he attempted to conquer it, and he will likely succeed.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:59 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
Wut? He does it himself
Nothing in that quote admitted he is associated with all the coup claims you made, and it argues there was no coup and it was an organic response to Russian aggression.
quote:
Russia also always held that the revolution was a plan by Western govts
No fricking shite.
quote:
. And linking Zelensky to it
This should signal to you why the above is not trustworthy.
Zelensky has nothing to do with any 2014 conspiracy theories. Trying to link him to them is irrational and illogical.
He ousted the purported puppet in the CT alleging a Western-created coup in 2014.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Interesting, and as accurate as your earlier EU premise.
None of those pictures are from 2013
You're mistaken of course,
but I'm surprised you'd blindly go there.
Silly.
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This post was edited on 2/19/25 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:11 pm to TheShmoo
-Biden was outright chiding Putin to invade for a few weeks.
-then he said Putin will invade in the next three days, just you wait and see, Putin did nothing.
-then Biden's Blinken and that a-hole Kirby said any moment 48 hours Putin will invade.
-Putin did.
-It was revealed that Biden via Blinken got a message to Putin that Ukraine would be made a NATO member
-Biden sent the dingbat Kamala to the area to start the war with her nonsense
-Putin became enraged
-then Biden and DC tried to jazz it up all cold war style
-Biden said LIVE on TV the Russian pipeline won't exist-we had his word as a Biden
-MOST LIKELY some Burisma type deal benefitted Biden's, Kerry's stepson, Pelosi's son, Romney's guy
-legacy media reported that Putin had cancer and was mad
-legacy media reported with Kirby at the Pentagon that Putin has a super secret sub that has a special missile that can cause a 1000 foot wave to hit the entire USA coast
-suddenly even smart people believed that if we didn't send the puppet Zelenskyy a billion biweekly and a billion to the taliban-our military would be sent to fight a bad mean cold war that was ended with Reagan
We had a deal under Reagan that not one inch would be penetrated by NATO/USA surrounding Russia.
He is a Biden and he broke his word.
-then he said Putin will invade in the next three days, just you wait and see, Putin did nothing.
-then Biden's Blinken and that a-hole Kirby said any moment 48 hours Putin will invade.
-Putin did.
-It was revealed that Biden via Blinken got a message to Putin that Ukraine would be made a NATO member
-Biden sent the dingbat Kamala to the area to start the war with her nonsense
-Putin became enraged
-then Biden and DC tried to jazz it up all cold war style
-Biden said LIVE on TV the Russian pipeline won't exist-we had his word as a Biden
-MOST LIKELY some Burisma type deal benefitted Biden's, Kerry's stepson, Pelosi's son, Romney's guy
-legacy media reported that Putin had cancer and was mad
-legacy media reported with Kirby at the Pentagon that Putin has a super secret sub that has a special missile that can cause a 1000 foot wave to hit the entire USA coast
-suddenly even smart people believed that if we didn't send the puppet Zelenskyy a billion biweekly and a billion to the taliban-our military would be sent to fight a bad mean cold war that was ended with Reagan
We had a deal under Reagan that not one inch would be penetrated by NATO/USA surrounding Russia.
He is a Biden and he broke his word.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Trying to link him to them is irrational and illogical.
Do you just stake out a position, and then twist all the historical evidence to prove your point?
quote:
Ending The War
When Zelensky was sworn in as president in May 2019, he inherited the role of supreme commander in chief of Ukraine's armed forces and a grinding war against Russia-backed separatists who hold parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in what is known as the Donbas. More than 13,000 people have been killed since fighting began in April 2014.
He lied
quote:
One of Zelensky's two main promises was to bring the war to an end, a goal that polls have shown Ukrainians want to see accomplished more than anything.
quote:
Ultimately Zelenskiy's first government was fired and replaced.
He was bait and switch. Same old, same old
The war is not ending. The corruption got an impeachment for Trump. And his first govt was a massive failure. Now there are no elections. Hes a tool of Western democracies aided by USAID and Soros funding
And of course you cant trace his roots to the start of the war, just like you cant trace where all the US funding has gone, or how Soros funds revolutions like the one in Ukraine
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:19 pm to TheShmoo
quote:
US President Donald Trump has appeared to accuse Ukraine of being responsible for the war with Russia
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9814k2jlxko
Don't swallow everything you get from the BBC.
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