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re: Evangelicals turning on Catholics all of a sudden.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 12:26 pm to Louisianalabguy
Posted on 4/11/26 at 12:26 pm to Louisianalabguy
quote:
Catholics can't comprehend how the followers of Christ can support his killers in such a fanatical way
You’re really taking a lot of liberties with context missing too. The authors of the Bible were Jewish. Jesus was Jewish. Paul states that blindness of Israel is only partial and temporary until the fullness of the Christian Church comes about and the rapture occurs. The Jews played a role in the death of Jesus, sure…some did but your statement here is very lacking of a big picture view of things.
This post was edited on 4/11/26 at 12:27 pm
1
Posted on 4/11/26 at 1:43 pm to Champagne
quote:
I do not agree with the notion that Evangelicals are turning on Catholics all of a sudden. I contend that ecumenical feelings of mutual fraternal affection are good at the moment in the USA. Each sect has within its own membership, a number of Leftists who espouse secular political beliefs that are destructive, but, in any large group of people, you will find people of different secular political persuasion.
I agree with all that.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 1:47 pm to The Baker
Those Catholic "charities" that recruit and coach the dregs of the 3rd world to invade our country, request asylum, and live on the dole are working for the destruction of western civiluzation. That's not every practicing Catholic but it is the Church doing it.
This post was edited on 4/11/26 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 4/11/26 at 1:55 pm to wadewilson
quote:
Catholicism is a cult
quote:
wadewilson
Bless your heart
Posted on 4/11/26 at 2:09 pm to Champagne
quote:Not really, because while you are so focused on mechanical submission to the Pope as the unifying thread of Christianity, I believe true unity is in Jesus Christ, and therefore a true branch of the Church is not one organizationally connected to another, but spiritually connected through faithful preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the faithful administration of the two sacraments of the Lord's Supper and Baptism, and the faithful execution of church discipline. I have more in common with many of my Protestant brothers and sisters of other denominations than you have with other professing Roman Catholics.
That's quite an understatement.
quote:What you're describing is really just one--the PCUSA--out of a few dozen denominations.
Even within your own Presbyterianism there is an astonishing divergence of Theological agreement. For example, one part of Presbyterianism preaches that homosexual couples and clergy who have active sex lives with each other can get to Heaven. Other parts of Presbyterianism preach the exact opposite.
quote:At some point, you can't even call a denomination "Christian" any longer, and one of the identifying markers is orthodoxy in terms of the nature of the Trinity. Oneness Pentecostals are not Christian in this sense, because they don't even have a right view of God that all other Protestant denominations have.
Not to mention other Protestant sects who teach the exact opposite of one another with regard to, say, for example: The existence of the Holy Trinity.
quote:Speaking of half-truths and distortions... no, I did not say that at all. I said we agree on a lot more than you are giving us credit for in response to you you making a hyperbolic statement that we can't agree on anything.
So, here you are with more half-truths and distortions. Your own Presbyterian sect is broken into directly opposing pieces, but, you contend that this is some kind of "Unity" that Christ prayed for to the Father. It's not "unity" you say, but, maybe informal unity or some kind of invisible unity, and, for you, this fulfills Christ's prayer.
Seriously, if you're going to get into discussions like this, you really need to understand the other position and argue in good faith. Continually attacking the size of my denomination or putting words in my mouth about what Jesus prayed for is counter-productive to truth claims and whether or not they are valid.
quote:No, that's not what I believe to be true.
You are your own teaching authority. When you are your own teaching authority on what the Bible says, you can never be wrong, and other people who don't agree with you can never be right.
For one, I believe the Scriptures teach that elders/pastors were given to the Church for teaching, using the Scriptures.
Second, the Scriptures, themselves, are the only infallible teaching authority for the Christian, so we should be ensuring that those who do teach us are doing so faithfully according to God's word and not their own.
Lastly, I believe the opposite about reformation: I believe that since the Scriptures are the only infallible rule, that each Christian must continually sit under biblical preaching and teaching, and perform self-study of the Scriptures to ensure that our own understanding is correct, and be willing to be corrected by Scripture.
My (the Bible's) position allows for reformation of understanding and doctrine. Yours doesn't, because when there is an authoritative teaching provided by the Magisterium, it cannot be "wrong", and can only be further clarified.
This post was edited on 4/11/26 at 3:16 pm
Posted on 4/11/26 at 2:18 pm to Champagne
quote:You don't realize this yet, but you have completely undermined your position on this.
Not an "oof" at ALL. The Official Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear about the sinful and disordered nature of Homosexual sexual activity.
The Official Doctrine of many Protestant sects teaches that Homosexual sexual activity is Godly and Good.
We are talking "official doctrine" here, not the various opinions of individual people.
You keep touting Catholic "unity", and then point to the "official" church teachings compared to the differing official teachings of Protestant denominations. You and other Catholics talk about how you have an infallible Magisterium, and that you need one to correctly interpret and apply the Bible so that there aren't so many differing beliefs like in Protestant churches, and that sola scriptura results in Protestants having their own beliefs and interpretations, while Catholicism has one belief system.
HOWEVER, when you talk about the vast differences of beliefs and practices from parish to parish, from diocese to diocese, and from country to country within Catholicism, you actually see that the "unity" that comes from the Magisterium is not really a true unity that you pretend to have.
If the end result is that the lay-catholic will have a variance of beliefs that differs from the official teaching of the church, then the infallible teaching authority you claim is absolutely useless. What good is having one infallible "correct" teaching when you allow everyone to believe whatever they want? You aren't unified at all: you just claim unity because everyone says that they have allegiance to the Roman Catholic organization. You functionally have just as much difference in beliefs as Protestants, but you hide behind the "unity" of Catholicism. The Magisterium is supposed to clarify doctrine for Catholics, which means you should be unified as people in your beliefs. Otherwise, you are doing exactly what the Protestants do in claiming an infallible authority with differing understandings of it.
At the end of the day, Catholicism is just as fractured and disunified over particular teachings and beliefs as Protestants, but because those disagreements all take place under the name of Roman Catholicism, you claim that all is well. Talk about disingenuous.
This post was edited on 4/11/26 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 4/11/26 at 2:25 pm to Crimson1st
quote:
You’re really taking a lot of liberties with context missing too.
Don't be obtuse. It's easy for ANY Christian to determine the Jewish power structure was threatened by Jesus and had him eliminated by intense pressure to the point of threats against Pilot. Poor and powerless Jews then and now were manipulated.
How any Christian can support zionism is and will be forever nonsensical.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 2:36 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
At the end of the day, Catholicism is just as fractured and disunified over particular teachings and beliefs as Protestants, but because those disagreements all take place under the name of Roman Catholicism, you claim that all is well. Talk about disingenuous.
There's a lot of truth to this statement. Many Catholics anguish over what has come out of the Vatican in the last two administration's. You may not be aware, but there are voices of disagreement of these heresies in Catholicism and they are getting louder.
Please pray for our Church.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 4:21 pm to Champagne
quote:
Feel free to educate those of your fellow Protestants who insist that they are Bible Alone/Faith Alone and yet believe that Scripture clearly teaches that Homosexual sexual activity is Godly and Good.
I agree with every point you made. Anyone who reads the Bible honestly, without projecting their own wishes onto it, would reach the same conclusion. That’s why most Christians agree on about 90%, with most disagreements boiling down to secondary issues. There will always be false teachers ready to scratch the ‘itchy ears’ of those who want to hear what suits them. So far, the Catholic Church has been fortunate to keep much of that corruption out of its core doctrines. But if it ever does become corrupted, would you still support the institution? Or do you believe it simply cannot be corrupted?
Posted on 4/11/26 at 4:43 pm to FooManChoo
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.quote:
On October 31, 1501, former Cardinal Cesare Borgia purportedly hosted an orgy in the Vatican with "50 honest prostitutes" in which his own father, Pope Alexander VI, not only attended but participated in.
It was known as the Banquet of Chestnuts.
Pope Alexander VI was considered one of the most corrupt popes in all of Catholic history. His name was associated with incest, adultery, bribery, and murder.
The pope was also known for selling official positions within the Church and securing power and wealth only for his family, the House of Borgia.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 4:51 pm to Ailsa
Posted on 4/11/26 at 5:04 pm to The Baker
Been in many envangelical churches all my life and have never heard a bad word about Catholics
Posted on 4/11/26 at 5:08 pm to The Baker
[quote]His whole purpose is support peace.[/quote
I would think his whole purpose would be to bring the message of Christ to the masses.
I would think his whole purpose would be to bring the message of Christ to the masses.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 5:16 pm to CorchJay
quote:What verse are you referring to? I was addressing Matthew 16:18 only.
Yet you ignore the word harpazo - rapturus- caught up also known as Rapture.
quote:I think it's wordplay, not literal, and rock is used to emphasize a firm foundation.
Why did Christ call Peter, Simon Barjona when talking about who the “rock” is. He didn’t use Peter. Then just a few verses down calls Peter, Satan. So is he the true “rock” or Satan?
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."
-- Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:24-25)
Posted on 4/11/26 at 5:29 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
HOWEVER, when you talk about the vast differences of beliefs and practices from parish to parish, from diocese to diocese, and from country to country within Catholicism, you actually see that the "unity" that comes from the Magisterium is not really a true unity that you pretend to have.
This is an inane argument. There are about a billion and half Catholics in the world, that they're not all lock/step with the Vatican isn't the same as "there is no unity".
quote:
If the end result is that the lay-catholic will have a variance of beliefs that differs from the official teaching of the church, then the infallible teaching authority you claim is absolutely useless. What good is having one infallible "correct" teaching when you allow everyone to believe whatever they want?
More retardation.
For the "infallible teaching" to be useful, in your view - what should the Catholic church do to those act counter to said teaching?
Posted on 4/11/26 at 5:34 pm to Lou
quote:
I think it's wordplay, not literal, and rock is used to emphasize a firm foundation.
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."
-- Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:24-25)
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone;
Posted on 4/11/26 at 5:37 pm to The Baker
Christians will all come together when the chips are down. Because it's really about our character and not the letter of our particular form of worship. That is what Jesus will judge us on, into our next life. Love, pure and simple.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 8:27 pm to David_DJS
quote:Let me try this again.
This is an inane argument. There are about a billion and half Catholics in the world, that they're not all lock/step with the Vatican isn't the same as "there is no unity".
The argument that several Catholics on this board have been making as to why Catholicism is good and Protestantism is bad is that there is no unity in Protestantism while Catholicism is united. In addition, it is argued that the unity of Catholicism stems from the infallible Magisterium being able to interpret the Bible (and oral tradition) so that there are not divergent beliefs, while Protestantism adheres to sola scriptura without an infallible interpreting mechanism, and that this leads to variance in beliefs.
What I'm saying is that you can't claim unity just because the RCC has a singular doctrine that all must believe when, in practice, much of the church doesn't believe it. The unity is not in the stated doctrine, but in the acceptance and adherence to it by the people. It's a false unity, otherwise.
In addition, I'm also saying that the criticisms against sola scriptura related to variance of interpretations also fall short when the "infallible" magisterium still needs to be interpreted and believed by fallible lay Catholics, and when they believe different things in spite of what the magisterium says, it's no different than Protestants believing different things in spite of what the Scriptures teach.
quote:What they have done in years past: church discipline.
For the "infallible teaching" to be useful, in your view - what should the Catholic church do to those act counter to said teaching?
The Scriptures lay the foundation for discipline for those who refuse to repent of their false beliefs and practices. Sin must be corrected, and if the people are in sin, they must be corrected or excommunicated if they persistently refuse.
What good are standards if they are not enforced? Like I said, this "unity" that Rome claims to have is a mirage.
Posted on 4/11/26 at 9:44 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
What I'm saying is that you can't claim unity just because the RCC has a singular doctrine that all must believe when, in practice, much of the church doesn't believe it. The unity is not in the stated doctrine, but in the acceptance and adherence to it by the people. It's a false unity, otherwise.
What percentage of the faithful need to accept/adhere for a church, in your eyes, to be unified? You've created some weird threshold here that in reality, doesn't exist.
Here's the point you're unwilling to understand - and I'll use abortion because it's such a black/white issue.
There is not a single Catholic diocese, parish, church that supports abortion or doesn't teach that abortion is murder and a grave sin. That 100% of Catholics don't agree with that position doesn't mean the Church isn't unified.
Now test protestants the same way. I don't pretend to know much about protestants, but am pretty sure there are protestant churches/hierarchy that are good with abortion, while others aren't - or am I wrong about that?
quote:
What they have done in years past: church discipline.
The Scriptures lay the foundation for discipline for those who refuse to repent of their false beliefs and practices. Sin must be corrected, and if the people are in sin, they must be corrected or excommunicated if they persistently refuse.
What good are standards if they are not enforced? Like I said, this "unity" that Rome claims to have is a mirage.
What makes you think the Catholic church has changed in this regard?
This post was edited on 4/11/26 at 9:46 pm
Posted on 4/11/26 at 10:28 pm to David_DJS
quote:
What percentage of the faithful need to accept/adhere for a church, in your eyes, to be unified? You've created some weird threshold here that in reality, doesn't exist.
Maybe just the majority would work. The majority of US Catholics think abortion should be mostly legal. Almost 3/4 of US Catholics think homosexuality should be accepted.
So, it’s not talking about some tiny minority of Catholics who disagree with official Church doctrine. It’s the vast majority of them.
You can’t pretend like that’s not a problem for a Church that claims that they have unity of theology.
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