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re: Do You Believe in Absolute Morality?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:47 am to Perfect Circle
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:47 am to Perfect Circle
Morality is a necessary construct of our dependence on forming societies to survive and thrive.
Extra-judicial murder and theft have to be opposed otherwise we could not form successful societies.
If murder is simply the killing of another human being then we clearly don’t all agree that it is always wrong since not everyone can agree on things like war, self defense, the death penalty, and so on.
People that commit socially unacceptable actions tend to be removed from society and have a lower chance of procreating. Behavior is yet another evolved trait.
Extra-judicial murder and theft have to be opposed otherwise we could not form successful societies.
If murder is simply the killing of another human being then we clearly don’t all agree that it is always wrong since not everyone can agree on things like war, self defense, the death penalty, and so on.
People that commit socially unacceptable actions tend to be removed from society and have a lower chance of procreating. Behavior is yet another evolved trait.
1
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:49 am to Rex
quote:
Er, no.
So, there is no "right and "wrong"? Society and mankind can function and survive without a code of morality? Is this an accurate assessment of what you're saying?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:50 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
The knowledge of right and wrong is part of our being.
Correct.
quote:
How did it get there? What is its source?
God. The Universal Truth.
God does not belong to any one religion. He simply IS. He has revealed himself to mankind many times. Many come to know him through many ways and he has been called by many names, but his true presence is unmistakable. If you take a true and dedicated step towards God he will reveal himself to you as well. Truth and Goodness. Peace with all of you.
And to the sceptics and non-believers, you are absolutely entitled to your beliefs and opinions. If you close your heart, you have chosen to do so, please do not advocate others to close theirs. Everyone benefits from an open heart and an open mind.
As a final thought, God exists outside of time and space as we know it. Many people get bogged down on the questions of how, but miss that God is more important to the question of why than the questions of how.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 9:04 am
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:51 am to DocSavage
Are you saying morality can't exist in chaos?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:51 am to Perfect Circle
Consistently failing to do what is right is also part of our being.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:52 am to Perfect Circle
My conscience tells me that morality is real.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:53 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
So you're saying immorality can lead to moral outcomes, justifying immorality?
Killing a baby to save the mother's life in an ectopic pregnancy is the classic example.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:54 am to Perfect Circle
I don't ever believe in any absolutes. Not a single one of them. Ever.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:56 am to DoctorO
quote:
Self preservation of the species.
So what you're saying implies, at some point, people decided morality was necessary for survival, that the knowledge of right and wrong is not something people are born with?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:57 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
The knowledge of right and wrong is part of our being. How did it get there? What is its source?
It's developed through empathy. A human's ability to not only understand another person's emotions, but to feel those emotions also as if they were one's own. I don't know of a study, only anecdotes, but I'd wager that most serial murderers lack basic empathy.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 8:58 am to Perfect Circle
Yup. The first couple chapters of Mere Christianity explains it perfectly for me.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:01 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
that the knowledge of right and wrong is not something people are born with?
I believe it "evolved" along with our self awareness as a mechanism for mutually assured survival.
Lots of children who know no better and are raised in horrible homes are "good" people without any formative training in morality. "Nurture" can outweigh "nature" in many regards due to the malleability of the brain in our formative years, but by and large, people know that injuring another person for selfish reasons is bad. Stealing from another is bad. Logic tells us this. Logic is a natural occurrence. Our self awareness allows us to expand on logic & define it as morality, but it is essentially a logical conclusion for the survival of a social species with the added evolutionary tool of self awareness such as humans.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 9:26 am
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:16 am to GumboPot
quote:
Killing a baby to save the mother's life in an ectopic pregnancy is the classic example.
I would think terminating a pregnancy to save the mother's life would not be an immoral action. Do you think a proponent of Absolute Morality would see it as such? Is there a difference between an elective abortion, where the desired outcome is the termination of a pregnancy, and the pursuit of a treatment that would save the mother's life but would result in the death of the baby? Those seem to be two totally different things...the motivations behind each decision are not compatible.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:18 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Are you saying morality can't exist in chaos?
No. Moral choices just become more difficult to justify when your survival depends on the result. I'm not saying the moral standard goes away. We as individuals decide where our limit is based on our value of the moral standard being tested. Some people would never kill another person no matter the circumstance, others might kill you for a smoke. Stability limits the number of moral choices you have to make to survive. Chaos is literally everyone making constant individual moral choices without the consideration of society and its boundaries.
This post was edited on 11/13/18 at 9:22 am
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:21 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
everyone agrees certain actions are "right" and certain actions are "wrong."
Murder is wrong.
Stealing is wrong.
Lying and deceit are wrong.
I could provide justified examples for each of those "absolutely" wrong acts. It's a recurring problem with moral absolutism.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:22 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Do You Believe in Absolute Morality
Not at all. There is ALWAYS an exception to the rule. ALWAYS
quote:
Murder is wrong.
Would have been wonderful if Lenin was murdered by the Germans instead of shipped into Russia.
quote:
Stealing is wrong.
Robin Hood
quote:
Lying and deceit are wrong.
I’d lie to a Nazi to hide my Jew neighbor. That isn’t wrong
quote:
Kindness is right.
Better to kill your enemy outright than allow him to live and sow resentment later down the road.
quote:
Mercy is right.
Child rapist deserve no mercy
quote:
Compassion is right.
You can’t be 100% compassionate and 100% anti-murder. Allow someone you love to have a long, drawn out painful death, or be compassionate and end it swiftly and painlessly.
Absolutes are bad mmkay
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:31 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
How did it get there? What is its source?
Well..when that bitch got hungry and took a bite of an apple...
I kid...but morality as an objective construct cannot exist without it being a subjective construct.
And I think the Bible sets this up nicely as morality "evolves" from the 10 Commandments to the Sermon on the Mount.
Morality is simple and easy when morality is objective, with "Though shall not commit adultery"...Commit adultery, sin and accept punishment...easy, peasy, japanesy...BUT....shite starts getting real when the moral trigger moves from actually commiting adultery to lusting after a hot chick...that's when your conscience kicks in and morality becomes totally subjective.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:33 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
I could provide justified examples for each of those "absolutely" wrong acts.
Please do. Keep in mind, termination of an ectopic pregnancy fails to qualify as murder. Nor does killing in self-defense, or in defense of one's country in war.
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:36 am to Ten Bears
So there is no common moral law that all people agree on?
Posted on 11/13/18 at 9:36 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Is this an accurate assessment of what you're saying?
No. And what I said needs no further explanation.
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