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Started By
Message
re: Desantis wins Royal Caribbean caves & won't require vaccine passports
Posted on 6/5/21 at 12:13 am to Lawyered
Posted on 6/5/21 at 12:13 am to Lawyered
quote:
He’s gonna get my vote in 3 years
I hope he runs with Trump. Heckuva 1-2 lineup. Gives Florida to Trump easily. And a natural to run immediately after. That could set up 3 terms of Republican Presidents.
Hopefully Florida elects a good one to replace him.
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 12:15 am
0
Posted on 6/5/21 at 12:39 am to davyjones
quote:
your argument is that government should not intervene to regulate private industry whatsoever?
No, government should only get involved when it is absolutely necessary to do so. You keep bringing in all of these "what if" scenarios, maybe those are necessary for government to get involved. But in this case it is not.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 12:54 am to westerntigerfan
Well yeah, I'm bringing in "what if" scenarios that are easily possible situations that would affect a very large portion of society. Plane travel? Basic retail stores?
Long story short, I think there are two essential questions here:
(1) Do you believe there are legitimate reasons for government intervention/regulation of private industry; and
(2) if answer to #1 is "yes" then the question becomes 'is this scenario a legitimate reason for some of that government intervention'?
I tend to believe that unfettered ability of any and all private industry to require a vaccination greatly overshadows many if not most of the reasons that we currently allow for government intervention. This would be toward the top of the list for such intervention, IMO.
But reasonable minds can differ. I understand that reality as well.
Long story short, I think there are two essential questions here:
(1) Do you believe there are legitimate reasons for government intervention/regulation of private industry; and
(2) if answer to #1 is "yes" then the question becomes 'is this scenario a legitimate reason for some of that government intervention'?
I tend to believe that unfettered ability of any and all private industry to require a vaccination greatly overshadows many if not most of the reasons that we currently allow for government intervention. This would be toward the top of the list for such intervention, IMO.
But reasonable minds can differ. I understand that reality as well.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:16 am to davyjones
quote:
Do you believe there are legitimate reasons for government intervention/regulation of private industry; and
Of course I do.
quote:
is this scenario a legitimate reason for some of that government intervention'?
Obviously not, to all who have been paying attention.
quote:
But reasonable minds can differ.
I agree, but I used to argue with my liberal friends about issues like this. I never thought that in 2021 that I would be arguing with conservatives about what government's role in private businesses should be. I thought we were all on the same page on this.
To me it boils down to a few questions: Is cruise travel a constitutional right or an essential part of American life?
No
Is the Cruise line discriminating against anyone based on age, gender, race, or anything that is not under the control of the consumer?
No
Does the cruise line's policy cause any physical or mental harm to the consumers?
No
Does this policy give the Cruise line an unfair advantage in relation to its competitors?
No
Then let a private company do whatever they want.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:38 am to westerntigerfan
I think we start to diverge from the same wavelength with the extensive and particular mention of the cruise line industry. It's a much broader situation than that.
I believe I know the answer, but I'm going to ask anyway: Do you "denounce" Desantis' EO altogether, specifically the EO that prescribes a fine of up to $5000/instance for ANY Florida business (or school or government) that requires proof of vaccination by an individual using or seeking to use their service or organization??
**On an important note, we've all overlooked the fact that there is no specific mention of any business/school/government being prohibited from announcing or posting a requirement of the vaccine for their business/school/government, only specifically mentions "request for proof of vaccination". That's a unique distinction.
ETA....and the downvote isn't mine, IMO that would discourage worthwhile discourse.
I believe I know the answer, but I'm going to ask anyway: Do you "denounce" Desantis' EO altogether, specifically the EO that prescribes a fine of up to $5000/instance for ANY Florida business (or school or government) that requires proof of vaccination by an individual using or seeking to use their service or organization??
**On an important note, we've all overlooked the fact that there is no specific mention of any business/school/government being prohibited from announcing or posting a requirement of the vaccine for their business/school/government, only specifically mentions "request for proof of vaccination". That's a unique distinction.
ETA....and the downvote isn't mine, IMO that would discourage worthwhile discourse.
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 1:45 am
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:10 am to Shiftyplus1
quote:
Trump taught 'em
DeSantis>Trump
Posted on 6/5/21 at 3:42 am to westerntigerfan
quote:
It literally fines the industry if they don't comply to the governments demands. How does this promote freedom and choice? The consumer can already choose from dozens of cruise lines.
It fines the industry if they create a whole new protocol for treating passengers. It doesn’t fine them a dollar for conducting business exactly like it conducted business in 2019.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 3:43 am to westerntigerfan
quote:
should ask you the same thing,
Ask.
I voted for Trump.
I’ll ask you again. Who did you vote for?
Posted on 6/5/21 at 6:48 am to westerntigerfan
quote:
Is the Cruise line discriminating against anyone based on age, gender, race, or anything that is not under the control of the consumer?
Why should that matter? You don’t have the right to go on a cruise. In a perfect world they could discriminate for any reason they liked, skin color and covid card included.
But we don’t live in a perfect world, and those aren’t the rules we’re forced to play by. DeSantis is playing by the rules that are in place, not the rules we wish were in place. I have no problem with it.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 7:07 am to westerntigerfan
quote:
Is that the standard for creating laws now? Well we already have laws pertaining to businesses, so let's just add whatever ones that serve our interest at the moment. That's really your argument?
I guess the left should be the only ones allowed to do this as the right sits on their hands.
At least the right goes about it in the legal way by passing laws instead of doing what the left did last summer to our election laws nationwide.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 7:09 am to Jack Carter
quote:
There are so few republicans willing to fight. Trump and Desantis are only among a few.
I fricking hate weak republicans who don't fight for what's right.
We need a third party. I hate supporting people when I know their money ends up in the hands of the RNC
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 7:10 am
Posted on 6/5/21 at 7:19 am to Nguyener
In response to above it is not an EO it is a law passed by the legislature and it is done to protect the citizens which is their primary objective. So if you are a business and do not like the laws of Florida you can leave. Nothing keeps RC from leaving but it prevents them from discrimination against the citizens
Some posters on here are beyond hope with their dumbassery
Some posters on here are beyond hope with their dumbassery
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 7:20 am
Posted on 6/5/21 at 7:48 am to troyt37
quote:
Clinton was elected governor several times, and president twice, but it’s rare to talk to anyone here who ever voted for him...
What % of this board is over 50 and from Arky?
Posted on 6/5/21 at 7:53 am to dafif
quote:
In response to above it is not an EO i
Yep, correct. I was inaccurate in my mention of EO earlier in the thread. There was indeed a significant EO signed by Desantis curtailing covid passports, but the bill that passed (adding teeth with the fine) replaced Desantis' prior EO on the subject.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 7:55 am to TOSOV
quote:
I guess the left should be the only ones allowed to do this as the right sits on their hands.
The short-bus crowd here is being either dishonest or monumentally stupid, as they’re pretending that this is happening in a vacuum. Conservatives typically want less regulation, this is a regulation, muh hypocrites.
But the world doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and the question here isn’t “should we have less government interference with private business?” That’s been answered in the real world, and unfortunately the answer is “no”. No, the question is “should the right play by the same rules the left is playing by?” I was in the “no” camp for a long time, but pragmatism has won out. The only way they’ll ever see the harm in stuff like this is when it’s shoved up their arse, so shove away.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 8:35 am to Flats
Surely there isn't an actual school of thought amongst us here that advocates for no government regulation at all. I would like to think we're all thankful for at least some of our "government regulation" such as passage and enforcement of criminal laws, or perhaps at some point in the near future reigning in the social media mafia, etc etc etc. We wouldn't be a civilized society without SOME regulation.
The key is whether a particular regulation is necessary for a legitimate purpose or whether it's overstepping authority or unconstitutional etc. I happen to believe this regulation (law) does serve a legitimate purpose and is not otherwise unconstitutional or without authority.
The key is whether a particular regulation is necessary for a legitimate purpose or whether it's overstepping authority or unconstitutional etc. I happen to believe this regulation (law) does serve a legitimate purpose and is not otherwise unconstitutional or without authority.
This post was edited on 6/5/21 at 8:39 am
Posted on 6/5/21 at 8:41 am to Bobby OG Johnson
Going have to disagree with Desatan here.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 8:46 am to davyjones
The RINO/Libertinearians would be supporting cruise lines if they were requiring oaths to the Emperor to cruise.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 8:48 am to RollTide4Ever
quote:
Going have to disagree with Desatan here.
Guess you'll have to go door to door asking people for their "papers please"
Posted on 6/5/21 at 8:49 am to Bobby OG Johnson
Too late, We already cancelled.
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