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DeSantis, Backing Away From Ukraine, Angers G.O.P. Hawks

Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:46 am
Posted by Taketts
Member since Feb 2023
112 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:46 am
quote:

The Florida governor, who joined Donald Trump in declaring that defending Ukraine from Russia was not a vital interest, drew swift condemnations from establishment

Declaring this week that defending Ukraine against Russia’s invasion was not a vital interest for the United States, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida cemented a Republican shift away from hawkish foreign policy that has played out over the past decade and accelerated with Donald J. Trump’s political rise.

Mr. Trump and Mr. DeSantis — whose combined support makes up more than 75 percent of Republican primary voters in the nascent 2024 presidential contest — are now largely aligned on Ukraine, signaling a sharp break from the interventionist approach that drove former President George W. Bush’s invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Republican foreign policy hawks recoiled at Mr. DeSantis’s statement on “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on Fox News on Monday night, in which the governor deviated from the position held by most of the Republican establishment on Capitol Hill, including Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the minority leader. Mr. McConnell and other top congressional Republicans have framed the invasion by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia as a fight to defend the post-World War II international security framework.

“DeSantis is wrong and seems to have forgotten the lessons of Ronald Reagan,” said former Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming, who led the House select committee investigating Mr. Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

“This is not ‘a territorial dispute,’” she said in a statement, echoing Mr. DeSantis’s phrasing. “The Ukrainian people are fighting for their freedom. Surrendering to Putin and refusing to defend freedom makes America less safe.”

She went on: “Weakness is provocative and American officials who advocate this type of weakness are Putin’s greatest weapon. Abandoning Ukraine would make broader conflict, including with China and other American adversaries, more likely.”

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, said in an interview on Tuesday morning that he “could not disagree more” with Mr. DeSantis’s characterization of the stakes attached to the defense of Ukraine.

“The Neville Chamberlain approach to aggression never ends well,” said Mr. Graham, comparing Mr. DeSantis to the British prime minister who appeased Adolf Hitler. “This is an attempt by Putin to rewrite the map of Europe by force of arms.”

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also took issue with Mr. DeSantis’s comments — a significant rebuke from the senior Republican in Mr. DeSantis’s home state.

“I don’t know what he’s trying to do or what the goal is,” Mr. Rubio, a former presidential candidate, told the conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt.

And Senator John Cornyn of Texas told Politico he was “disturbed” by Mr. DeSantis’s comments


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This is incredibly disappointing of Desantis. Pretty much the first time I've been disappointed by him. I know he's just saying this to appease the republican base. His actions from 2014-2015 in the house shows that his heart is in the right place and he understands that Ukraine should be defended. But it's still disappointing that he's decided to throw them under the bus because it makes the primary a little easier for him.

What the hell is happening to the party of Reagan? Are republicans really going to just bow down to communist Russia? To the point an up and coming conservative governor needs to betray his principles to win a republican primary? How can republicans correctly identify the Chinese threat but decide to just embrace Mother Russia? I've not been in this country for long but this goes completely against my prior conception of the republican party.

Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112635 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:47 am to
I’m going to send my wife’s son to Ukraine as soon as he is of age. We have to stop the Ruskies!
Posted by canyon
Member since Dec 2003
18380 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:48 am to
He’s not wrong.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:52 am to
Oh god where to start.

- Russia is not communist. In any way, shape, or form. Russia is not the USSR any more than Turkey is the Ottoman Empire or Italy is the Roman Empire.

- Russia and America have no territorial disputes, no historical hatred. We are not natural enemies, and have never been since our founding in 1776, with the exception of 1945-1990. We have never fought a hot war against them, which cannot be said about Spain, Britain, Germany, Italy, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Japan, Vietnam, all of whom are our allies now.

- Europe and America have different interests. Europe (the EU) is a direct market competitor to us. Russia is not. Europe is not a major consumer of US goods, they’re one of our primary competitors in almost every market.
Posted by Animal
Member since Dec 2017
4218 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:54 am to
It is a vital interest to D.C. politicians covering their asses.

Think of this way....they all fricked the hooker got her pregnant and now you have pay for the hooker and the abortion and you didn't even get your dick wet.
Posted by Animal
Member since Dec 2017
4218 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:56 am to
quote:

Oh god where to start.

- Russia is not communist. In any way, shape, or form. Russia is not the USSR any more than Turkey is the Ottoman Empire or Italy is the Roman Empire.

- Russia and America have no territorial disputes, no historical hatred. We are not natural enemies, and have never been since our founding in 1776, with the exception of 1945-1990. We have never fought a hot war against them, which cannot be said about Spain, Britain, Germany, Italy, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Japan, Vietnam, all of whom are our allies now.

- Europe and America have different interests. Europe (the EU) is a direct market competitor to us. Russia is not. Europe is not a major consumer of US goods, they’re one of our primary competitors in almost every market.


Get the frick out of here....truth is not welcome.
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44849 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 6:57 am to
quote:

Are republicans really going to just bow down to communist Russia?


I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was still 1962.

quote:

How can republicans correctly identify the Chinese threat but decide to just embrace Mother Russia?


Russia is not a threat to the United States, no matter how badly democrats want to perceive it as one.
Posted by OccamsStubble
Member since Aug 2019
4991 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:09 am to
Maybe he believes “Ukraine should be defended by the rest of the world”
while NOT believing “Ukraine should be defended by 110 million US citizens who have a job.
Posted by TomShelby
Member since Mar 2023
789 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:14 am to
Sounds like hes flip flopping like he did with the Vax
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118782 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:17 am to
quote:

DeSantis, Backing Away From Ukraine, Angers G.O.P. Hawks


I guess he doesn't go far enough for the GOP Hawks. DeSantis did not say he was against sending weapons to Ukraine. He said he was against sending weapons that could escalate direct conflict across Ukraine's border with Russia, like F-16 fighter plans.

Posted by Macfly
BR & DS
Member since Jan 2016
8076 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:18 am to
The larger issue is what's happening here regarding the economy, services, etc. Public sentiment is mirroring DeSantis and DJT but the politicians need to open their ears and eyes.
Posted by ABearsFanNMS
Formerly of tLandmass now in Texas
Member since Oct 2014
17462 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:19 am to
quote:

This is incredibly disappointing of Desantis. Pretty much the first time I've been disappointed by him. I know he's just saying this to appease the republican base.


quote:

Taketts


quote:

19 Posts


I ain’t no rocket surgeon but I know an alter when I see one!
Posted by stout
Smoking Crack with Hunter Biden
Member since Sep 2006
167258 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:23 am to
quote:

I’m going to send my wife’s son to Ukraine as soon as he is of age. We have to stop the Ruskies!




How many of the OT warmongers have volunteered or sent their family members?
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118782 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:25 am to
quote:

This is incredibly disappointing of Desantis.


Cheer up baw. DeSantis did not say he would abandon Zelensky. He specifically said:

quote:

The U.S. should not provide assistance that could require the deployment of American troops or enable Ukraine to engage in offensive operations beyond its borders.


If you read his carefully crafted letter by others, Ron is ready to give Ukraine support as long as the war remains inside Ukraine's borders.
Posted by GhostOfFreedom
Member since Jan 2021
11710 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:26 am to
I briefly listened to Mark Levin last night. I had to turn him off when he went on a tirade about not being a war monger and a globalist and nobody he knows wants to give Ukraine F-16s and unlimited, no accountability purse strings, yada yada yada, just because he wants to stop RUSSSSIIIAAAAAA.

This Ukraine thing is really exposing who the America last people are. The formerly hidden ones are getting the light shown on them.

Levin, Hannity, Eric Erickson, Shapiro...
Posted by GnashRebel
Member since May 2015
8179 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:28 am to
quote:

- Russia is not communist. In any way, shape, or form. Russia is not the USSR any more than Turkey is the Ottoman Empire or Italy is the Roman Empire


True. However it is a totalitarian state that’s uses military threat to dominate its neighbors and has expressly stated a desire to incorporate parts of them into it it.

Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118782 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:29 am to
quote:

How can republicans correctly identify the Chinese threat but decide to just embrace Mother Russia?
Posted by GnashRebel
Member since May 2015
8179 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:34 am to
quote:

- Russia and America have no territorial disputes, no historical hatred. We are not natural enemies, and have never been since our founding in 1776, with the exception of 1945-1990. We have never fought a hot war against them, which cannot be said about Spain, Britain, Germany, Italy, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Japan, Vietnam, all of whom are our allies now.


Not really a relevant argument. We didn’t have a history of conflict with the Germans, or the Japanese or the British until we did. We didn’t fight a hot war but we fought the hell out of proxy wars. Part of of our reason for allying with former enemies you listed is the broad perception across the planet that the Russians and the Chinese are aggressive and threaten many nations sovereignty.

It’s a tough situation. Obviously conflict isn’t great. But at the same time does the international community allow a few bad actors to consume their neighbors? I don’t know. It could go badly regardless of the course you take.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
26776 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:45 am to
quote:

the international community


Which just means us.

Hundreds of billions, much destined for money laundering and political corruption, is not my idea of fighting for freedom.

It should be Europe doing the heavy lifting on this, not the United States.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
26776 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 7:47 am to
quote:

The Neville Chamberlain approach to aggression never ends well,” said Mr. Graham, comparing Mr. DeSantis to the British prime minister who appeased Adolf Hitler. “This is an attempt by Putin to rewrite the map of Europe by force of arms.”



Seems Europe would be taking lead on this, then.

And comparing Great Britain/Germany to USA/Russia is fodder for idiots.
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