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re: DeSantis, Backing Away From Ukraine, Angers G.O.P. Hawks

Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:06 am to
Posted by AUTiger1978
Member since Jan 2018
1222 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:06 am to
quote:

True. However it is a totalitarian state that’s uses military threat to dominate its neighbors and has expressly stated a desire to incorporate parts of them into it it.


I guess it’s much better when it’s a quasi-democratic country that uses military threats to dominate countries on the other side of the globe and has expressly stated a desire for regime change in any country that defies it.
Posted by BugAC
St. George
Member since Oct 2007
57831 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:11 am to
quote:

Sounds like hes flip flopping like he did with the Vax


Ok, genius. Please point out where DeSantis has ever been in favor of sending tax dollars to Ukraine.

Another NPC with DDS.
Posted by BugAC
St. George
Member since Oct 2007
57831 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:16 am to
quote:

If you read his carefully crafted letter by others, Ron is ready to give Ukraine support as long as the war remains inside Ukraine's borders.



Maybe you and your DDS should also read more carefully. I'm anxious to see you spin this with another "well achtually".

quote:

“While the U.S. has many vital national interests - securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness with our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural and military power of the Chinese Communist Party - becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them,” DeSantis said in a statement.


LINK

quote:

DeSantis joined "Fox & Friends" Monday to discuss Biden's first visit to the war zone since the conflict started a year ago, and why the newly allocated half-billion dollars in Ukrainian aid is unacceptable without clearly defined goals.

"They have effectively a blank-check policy with no clear, strategic objective identified, and these things can escalate, and I don't think it's in our interests to be getting into a proxy war with China, getting involved over things like the borderlands or over Crimea," DeSantis said.


quote:

"So I think it would behoove them to identify what is the strategic objective that they're trying to achieve, but just saying it's an open-ended blank check, that is not acceptable," he continued.


LINK

quote:

“The media spent four years saying that Trump was some type of agent of Russia,” DeSantis said. “And yet, when I was in Congress when Obama was President, Obama refused to send weapons to Ukraine. When Trump was President, we sent weapons to Ukraine. Putin didn’t like that very much.

“When Obama was President, Putin took Crimea. When Trump was President, they didn’t take anything. And now Biden’s President and they’re rolling into Ukraine,” DeSantis said.

The Governor said when Biden oversaw a “total catastrophe” with his withdrawal from Afghanistan last August he emboldened Putin and also probably emboldened America’s adversaries in China and Iran.

“The weakness has bred a lot of the disorder that we’re seeing right now,” DeSantis said.
Posted by GnashRebel
Member since May 2015
8933 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:22 am to
quote:

Which just means us.


That is false. But should the Europeans do more? I suppose.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
53711 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:24 am to
quote:

Surrendering to Putin and refusing to defend freedom makes America less safe.”

lolololololololol
Posted by honeybadger07
The Woodlands
Member since Jul 2015
4240 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:26 am to
You sound dumb AF.
Posted by rmnldr
Member since Oct 2013
40304 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:28 am to
OP wants America to be last

Ron DeSantis wants America to be first
Posted by JJJimmyJimJames
Southern States
Member since May 2020
18496 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:29 am to
quote:

quote:
Surrendering to Putin and refusing to defend freedom makes America less safe.”
lolololololololol


succinct and to the point.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:31 am to
quote:

Maybe you and your DDS should also read more carefully. I'm anxious to see you spin


Why would I spin it? I quoted Ron directly.
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
122765 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:32 am to
quote:

I suppose


What kind of answer is this? Either you believe Russia is a threat or you don’t
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:32 am to
quote:

Why would I spin it?


Why indeed.
Posted by BugAC
St. George
Member since Oct 2007
57831 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:34 am to
quote:

Why would I spin it? I quoted Ron directly.



No, you didn't. You quoted the article directly that was paraphrasing what Ron said.

LINK

quote:

DeSantis added that while “peace should be the objective,” he opposed sending F-16s and long-range missiles, saying the U.S. shouldn’t provide aid that could prompt the involvement of U.S. troops or allow Ukraine to initiate an offensive beyond its borders.


I quoted ron directly, i then followed it up with 3 other past statements he made on Ukraine. Address those comments as well.

Highlight what i quoted, comment. Highlight the next quote, comment. Let's have a substantive debate rather than you avoiding things you don't want to acknowledge because it disagrees with your partisanship. Stop acting like a leftist and let's have a debate.
This post was edited on 3/15/23 at 8:36 am
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:37 am to
quote:

No, you didn't. You quoted the article directly that was paraphrasing what Ron said.



This is a direct quote from Ron and what I quoted on the first page:

quote:

The U.S. should not provide assistance that could require the deployment of American troops or enable Ukraine to engage in offensive operations beyond its borders.
Posted by BugAC
St. George
Member since Oct 2007
57831 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:38 am to
quote:

But should the Europeans do more? I suppose.



You suppose? What kind of chickenshit answer is that. America should have NO INVOLVEMENT. This is a Europe problem, not a US problem. Unless you are a leftist, then it's a "cover up your ukrainian corruption" problem.
Posted by BugAC
St. George
Member since Oct 2007
57831 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:40 am to
quote:

This is a direct quote from Ron and what I quoted on the first page:


1) that was not a direct quote. WHat preceded that statement in the article was a direct quote. It was paraphrasing what he said.
2) why won't you touch DeSantis previous comments on Ukraine? Why do you keep avoiding it?
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:41 am to
quote:

This is a direct quote from Ron and what I quoted on the first page:


Don't forget the extra seasoning you gave us.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:42 am to
quote:

Let's have a substantive debate


Then make an assertion.

Okay, I'll make one, no two.

Assertion 1: Ron is open to supplying Ukraine/Zelensky with weapons as long as the weapons maintain the Russia/Ukraine war within its borders.

Assertion 2: Ron is okay with funding Ukraine in the war as long as we have a clear objective to do so.

If you disagree with those assertions tell me why.



Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:47 am to
quote:

that was not a direct quote.



quote:

Florida Governor
@RonDeSantisFL
answers our Ukraine questionnaire:

“While the U.S. has many vital national interests – securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party – becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. The Biden administration’s virtual “blank check” funding of this conflict for “as long as it takes,” without any defined objectives or accountability, distracts from our country’s most pressing challenges.

Without question, peace should be the objective. The U.S. should not provide assistance that could require the deployment of American troops or enable Ukraine to engage in offensive operations beyond its borders. F-16s and long-range missiles should therefore be off the table. These moves would risk explicitly drawing the United States into the conflict and drawing us closer to a hot war between the world’s two largest nuclear powers. That risk is unacceptable.

A policy of “regime change” in Russia (no doubt popular among the DC foreign policy interventionists) would greatly increase the stakes of the conflict, making the use of nuclear weapons more likely. Such a policy would neither stop the death and destruction of the war, nor produce a pro-American, Madisonian constitutionalist in the Kremlin. History indicates that Putin’s successor, in this hypothetical, would likely be even more ruthless. The costs to achieve such a dubious outcome could become astronomical.

The Biden administration’s policies have driven Russia into a de facto alliance with China. Because China has not and will not abide by the embargo, Russia has increased its foreign revenues while China benefits from cheaper fuel. Coupled with his intentional depletion of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and support for the Left’s Green New Deal, Biden has further empowered Russia’s energy-dominated economy and Putin’s war machine at Americans’ expense.

Our citizens are also entitled to know how the billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars are being utilized in Ukraine.

We cannot prioritize intervention in an escalating foreign war over the defense of our own homeland, especially as tens of thousands of Americans are dying every year from narcotics smuggled across our open border and our weapons arsenals critical for our own security are rapidly being depleted."


That is Ron's full statement. The underlined part I quoted.

LINK
Posted by Deek
Member since Sep 2013
1321 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Ukraine should be defended


WHY???
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 3/15/23 at 8:53 am to
quote:

Assertion 1: Ron is open to supplying Ukraine/Zelensky with weapons as long as the weapons maintain the Russia/Ukraine war within its borders.

Assertion 2: Ron is okay with funding Ukraine in the war as long as we have a clear objective to do so.


You're filling in gaps with biased assumptions.

That was easy.
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