re: Cornell accuser told cops: ‘With 100% confidence I was raped

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Touche and fair point. But I posted about the oddness of the existence of police departments on public university campuses initially. Then I moved to discussing general consent. I never made any judgement about these specific events themselves. I'm not trying to portray myself as an expert.

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Fair enough.

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I think this is debatable, depending on the circumstances. If a person with an intellectual disability is raped, I agree that the victim would not need to fully grasp that he/she was violated for the crime to be a crime. If two drunk people willingly have sex and neither feels that they were violated - did a crime occur? Of if a husband and wife go out and the wife gets drunk and wants to have sex with her husband when they get home - would that be rape depending on her BAC? This gets extremely nuanced.

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Im assuming by intellectual disability, we’re talking severe enough to cause doubt relative to the persons ability to reason at all; basically forms of retardation, not someone with a reading comp issue. On the feeling issue, I don’t think it matters how you feel if what you say is indicative of consent. The state of how someone felt at a given time, of course not including cases of coercion, is such a vague area that we can’t hold people accountable for. Put simply, if you say to someone you want to have sex and you then have sex and you never ask to stop at any point, you consented. If that weren’t the case, theoretically you could have cases where someone verbally consents to sex but claims at some point they decided they didn’t want to continue, never verbalizes that desire and you now have a rape case. How can you possibly hold a person responsible for knowing the internal monologue of another person that they never shared out loud? That’s an incredibly dangerous precedent to set if we start going after people and the victim statements are essentially “I told them I wanted to have sex and we did but at some point I wanted to stop. I never said that to the other person but I feel violated so they should be punished.” That’s an incredibly dangerous precedent and it would absolutely be weaponized against people in a frivolous manner.

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Im assuming by intellectual disability, we’re talking severe enough to cause doubt relative to the persons ability to reason at all; basically forms of retardation, not someone with a reading comp issue.

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Right, like many individuals with Down Syndrome or someone who is unable to live independently due to their intellectual limitations.

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The state of how someone felt at a given time, of course not including cases of coercion, is such a vague area that we can’t hold people accountable for. Put simply, if you say to someone you want to have sex and you then have sex and you never ask to stop at any point, you consented.

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I completely agree. I'm more thinking about instances where incapacitation is involved. Does someone have to understand/realize/agree that he or she was violated for that person to have been violated (when considering typically functioning adults)?

Lets say the girl presented herself as a willing participant, was later determined to be incapacitated, then agrees that she was unable to consent at the time due to her incapacitation - would that be rape? If they boys who also presented themselves as willing participants, were later determined to be incapacitated, but maintain that they consented to the sexual acts - were they raped too? That's what I mean when I ask if what people believe they experienced matters when making these determinations.

I need pics of this chick

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Incredible reporting from the NYT.

The woman at Cornell did not consider herself a rape victim until she saw people making fun of her for being a slut.

She went to her "big sister" in her sorority and confessed that she had been a slut. Then while texting one of the men she reassured him that she enjoyed the first part of it and nothing illegal had happened.

Later, she texted him that she was traumatized. Not by the sex, but because everyone was laughing at her.

One week after her "rape," she was mad that she got disinvited from a party at the frathouse of her "rapists"!!!!!!!

Only a few days later, she decided that she was a "rape victim." Nobody would laugh at her anymore! She went from an object of ridicule and shame to a hero.

Once again, we need to have a serious conversation about how women are being lied to.

People do not respect sluts. Even at woke Ivy League universities. Human nature is what it is.

The lesson is women should protect their reputations by not doing things like this

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Regret = rape

Apparently, she didn't even go to the cops until the same frat disinvited her to its Halloween Party

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I completely agree. I'm more thinking about instances where incapacitation is involved.

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That’s easy, it’s rape unless a very specific set of circumstances. I’ve had friends whose wives tell their husbands in advance that they plan on drinking and getting plastered that night and they’re giving permission in advance for sexual contact even if they’re wasted. Now, is that my cup of tea? No. I don’t want sex if my wife isn’t in the mood or otherwise actively involved. Is it rape in that situation? I don’t think so.

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That’s easy, it’s rape unless a very specific set of circumstances.

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Lets say the girl presented herself as a willing participant, was later determined to be incapacitated, then agrees that she was unable to consent at the time due to her incapacitation - would that be rape? If they boys who also presented themselves as willing participants, were later determined to be incapacitated, but maintain that they consented to the sexual acts - were they raped too? That's what I mean when I ask if what people believe they experienced matters when making these determinations.

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Would you say both the young men and young woman were raped in this scenario? Would prosecution even be possible if everyone was incapacitated?

I just meant that I actually know someone who has this niche job.

I'm nice to everyone who carries guns, fwiw.

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I'm not making a point. I'm having a discussion.

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and it is a worthwhile discussion to have. People here are recounting the Duke Lacrosse case. That was particularly egregious but different from this incident. The Duke accuser concocted the entire tale, and a corrupt prosecutor took the case and ran. She was not charged for false accusation.

This is different, and far more akin to the Athens Ohio " ATM rape case." In that instance, a couple engaged in cunnilingus in front of an ATM on a public sidewalk. The woman smiled at and even engaged with passersby. An audience formed. Videos and pictures were taken.

The next day, when the pics started circulating, and the girl was identified, she was mortified. She filed rape charges. Given the content of the videos, it was clear she was fully participating and happy about it in the moment. After two years of legal to-and-fro, she dropped the charges. There was zero accountability for the false filing or for legal expenses incurred by the guy.

Similarly, in September 2014, a woman falsely claimed she was dragged into an alley and raped by a Black man after leaving a bar in uptown Charlotte. As the assailant was not in custody, restaurant/bar traffic in the area took a big hit. Eventually, police cobbled together video of the woman from the time she left the bar until she drove home. There was no assault. She admitted making the story up. She was not charged with filing a false report.

There are simply no consequences on that side of the equation.

re: the examples you listed --

I'm going to preface this by saying that I haven't like really worked any of this out and I'm sure it is probably unconstitutional and maybe immoral or illegal or horribly offensive.

It seems like there needs to be a discreet or secret court or law enforcement unit to investigate rapes or sexual assaults. There's just too much at stake for everyone involved in these accusations.