re: Conversation with a secular/agnostic friend about what has happened in America

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He is right wing and conservative but just not religious at all. Baptized Catholic but hasn’t practiced faith in any meaningful way his entire adult life

He was despairing about the influx of Muslims in political power and all the rapid changes with the rise of Marxism and Communism.

I explained that when America abandoned the idea of being a Christian country and defending it as a Christian country (most notably during the 1960s) this all exploded.

The seeds were set, we are just now seeing the tree bear it’s fruit. He didn’t understand why we people wouldn’t just want to live in a free and normal way without having to be outwardly Christian.

I told him when there’s a vacuum, something is going to fill that void every time. All of the enemies of Christianity are cooperating right now to take out their biggest obstacle, they will eventually cannibalize each other later on.

Like so many of our churches. They have become nothing but hollowed out feel good, pep talk centers at best, or in some cases full out NGO Democrat activist groups… there is nothing sacred or worth preserving anymore.

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Many on the conservative side of the political spectrum have been saying this ^^^^ for +30 years but we were summarily dismissed as right wing Christian loons who were trying to force Americans to conform to Christian moral standards and precepts.

[quote]"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." [/quote]

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Nope. My opinion is that they do it to a lesser degree. You implied there isn't any evidence beyond my mouth. History books say otherwise

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So laws allowing things that the religiously devout do not like, such as drugs, pornography, etc were not historic?

I think you are making exceptions to glaze over your beliefs.

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My opinion is that they do it to a lesser degree.

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I call bullshite on that. So give me an example of what you're talking about.

The way I understand the issue is this:

Every policy prescription proposed has one or more foundational assumptions underneath it. That assumption may be based on efficiency, it may be based on morality, it may be based on political gain, it may be based on a sense of justice.

But it's based on some assumption. And that assumption is a philosophical stance, whether the person harboring it realizes that or thinks about it that way or not. Therefore, every policy proposition made follows the same process, the only difference is the difference in viewpoints for the various different underlying assumptions.

I think that you don't see that. I think that you "other" the assumptions informed by religious backgrounds and see them differently than assumptions based on secular philosophies. But they aren't.

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You implied there isn't any evidence beyond my mouth.

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No, I didn't. That was someone else.

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History books say otherwise

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I see, so you are referring to pre-American history. Our situation is pretty different from a government in 230 B.C. or even from our colonial history. IMO a meaningful discussion on this is going to require that we stay in our own country in our own era.

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The issue is that you are all hypocrites. You don’t have any actual values.

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Who is "you," retard?

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You don’t have any actual values. You would vote for Satan if could beat Democrats.

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BTW, this is what the other guy refuses to admit: "I'm willing to do anything necessary to make sure that Democrats don't win," is a value.

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He didn’t understand why we people wouldn’t just want to live in a free and normal way

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Ask him who defines "a free and normal way". It'll probably be the first thought he's ever given to the matter.

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his general message aligns with the Biblical narrative of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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Yes. If you have no idea what the Biblical narrative of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is, I’m sure you could believe this.

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I explained that when America abandoned the idea of being a Christian country and defending it as a Christian country (most notably during the 1960s) this all exploded.

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Consider the Old Testament. Israel (and Judah) were God's select people through whom He intended to bring the savior of the entire world. They had special laws, commands, and special protection because they were special and set apart to Him. Yet He allowed Babylon and Syria to overrun Israel and Judah, to seize all the gold and precious items of the temple, and to destroy the temple itself because they turned their collective back on Him and turned to idolatry.

If God would allow His own chosen people, with whom He had a special covenant, to be utterly defeated and carried into captivity and slavery by foreign, heathen, idolatrous nations, why should we think that He will continue to show any deference to our current nation (with whom he has no special covenant) whose citizens are openly defying and denigrating all that is good, righteous, and holy?

I had no idea that Jesus himself wrote a Gospel? Might be one that Councils of Hippo and later , Carthage decided weren't up to snuff....questionable authorship.....not consistent with overall church dogma.