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re: As a Catholic, I view the pope the same as I do the English monarch
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:33 pm to Canon951
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:33 pm to Canon951
That’s the point. “Church” refers to the community of believers as a collective;
Matthew 18 20
“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
This is in reference to the totality of man that should profess Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior, not a specific denomination (or lack thereof).
The spreading of the Good Word via the ministry of Peter and the apostles is what forms the “Church”. There in lies the context of Peter being the “rock” (foundation) upon which the Church shall proceed.
ETA: added for context
Matthew 28:19
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”
Matthew 18 20
“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
This is in reference to the totality of man that should profess Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior, not a specific denomination (or lack thereof).
The spreading of the Good Word via the ministry of Peter and the apostles is what forms the “Church”. There in lies the context of Peter being the “rock” (foundation) upon which the Church shall proceed.
ETA: added for context
Matthew 28:19
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 9:41 pm
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Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:36 pm to crotiger0307
quote:
the blessing of same sex couples is a pretty big one
I believe he blessed them as individuals not their lifestyle.
quote:
Allocating a place for prayer to a false idol (Mohammed) within the walls of Vatican City
My understanding is this is located in the Vatican Apostolic Library and is for researchers not the general public. I don't find it necessary or wise, but neither do I know how it is Biblically banned.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:37 pm to crotiger0307
Peter= petros, stone or rock.
Petra= large boulder or cliff.
Jesus reference to Peter being a rock was petros.
Right after this statement, Peter the rock denied even knowing Jesus 3 times. Not a good look for the first pope, huh?
And, aren’t popes supposed to be “married to the church” only.
Peter was married. Jesus healed his mother in law. So when did the rule of priests being celibate come about ?
Petra= large boulder or cliff.
Jesus reference to Peter being a rock was petros.
Right after this statement, Peter the rock denied even knowing Jesus 3 times. Not a good look for the first pope, huh?
And, aren’t popes supposed to be “married to the church” only.
Peter was married. Jesus healed his mother in law. So when did the rule of priests being celibate come about ?
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:39 pm to yakster
quote:
So when did the rule of priests being celibate come about ?
That is a discipline of the Roman rite of the Catholic Church and can be overturned quite easily actually....there is just not the will to change it) Other rites within the Church have married priests (very common in the Eastern Orthodox rites).
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:39 pm to yakster
Reference my post on the last page about Petro/Kepha.
I’ll start working on the other questions you have.
I’ll start working on the other questions you have.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:39 pm to METAL
quote:
METAL
Question... if I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save me from my sins and fully accept him as Lord and Savior, but I do NOT believe that Peter was the first pope, that the Catholic church is the one true church and that Jesus had actual half brothers and sisters, will I still go to heaven?
If so... and I'm guilty of it at times as well... all this arguing between the Catholics and the Protestants here is kind of pointless, is it not?
I get it... y'all think you are better than all other denominations... I disagree... but other than that... does it really matter?
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:44 pm to crotiger0307
quote:
As a Catholic, I view the pope the same as I do the English monarch
No Catholic before the Second Vatican Council would dare say or believe such nonsense. The Church really did a number on themselves with that catasrophe. They completely upended the faith, causing so many (Bishops and Popes included) to apostatize from the faith that fed our ancestors for nearly 2,000 years.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 right before our eyes.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:45 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
if I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save me from my sins and fully accept him as Lord and Savior, but I do NOT believe that Peter was the first pope, that the Catholic church is the one true church and that Jesus had actual half brothers and sisters, will I still go to heaven?
Depends on how culpable you are. Like if you grew up in a Baptist household (insert any Protestant faith) your whole life, never experienced the Catholic faith besides what was told to you by Catholic hating family members who might misunderstand things told to them by their baptist family members...never tried to learn about the faith, etc? Lived a good lived oriented toward God and faith despite of that?
Probably not culpable so not a mortal sin...other humans may disagree.
but im not God and he is the most merciful so you know I dont really know and nobody will exactly
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:49 pm to yakster
Peter denying Jesus actually proves the opposite of what you’re trying to argue. Scripture constantly shows God working through flawed people. Peter falls hard, then Jesus restores him publicly in John 21 and tells him three times to “feed my sheep.” That’s not disqualifying him, that’s reaffirming his role after failure.
On the marriage point… Catholics don’t deny Peter was married. That’s literally in the Bible. Celibacy isn’t a claim that no leader was ever married, it’s a discipline, not a doctrine. Even Paul talks about celibacy as a good thing for ministry in 1 Corinthians 7, but also says it’s not required for everyone… and early on, you actually had both. Some clergy were married, some weren’t. Over time, the Western Church started to require celibacy for priests as a practical and spiritual discipline, not because marriage is bad or because Peter wasn’t married. Eastern Catholic Churches still have married priests today, which kind of proves the point.
On the marriage point… Catholics don’t deny Peter was married. That’s literally in the Bible. Celibacy isn’t a claim that no leader was ever married, it’s a discipline, not a doctrine. Even Paul talks about celibacy as a good thing for ministry in 1 Corinthians 7, but also says it’s not required for everyone… and early on, you actually had both. Some clergy were married, some weren’t. Over time, the Western Church started to require celibacy for priests as a practical and spiritual discipline, not because marriage is bad or because Peter wasn’t married. Eastern Catholic Churches still have married priests today, which kind of proves the point.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:51 pm to KCT
quote:
They're just men. Jesus should always be the focus.
This.
The last thing Christians need to do is be divided and bicker over stupid shite in these times. We need to be united to fight the evil coming from the outside.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:56 pm to yakster
quote:If I need to explain to you the foundational principle of the New Testament then I will, but I assume you already know that the forgiveness of sin is a pretty big part of it.
Peter the rock denied even knowing Jesus 3 times.
quote:Reread the OP. I do not refer to Peter as the “pope”. I opine on the idea that the pope is not divine, as some in the faith believe. However to me, that issue is not the end all be all that some make it out to be.
Not a good look for the first pope, huh?
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:57 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
The last thing Christians need to do is be divided and bicker over stupid shite in these times. We need to be united to fight the evil coming from the outside.
“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.
What I mean is that each one of you says, ‘I follow Paul,’ or ‘I follow Apollos,’ or ‘I follow Cephas,’ or ‘I follow Christ.’
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:58 pm to MemphisGuy
What Gaetti said but I’ll pile on…
Catholics believe salvation isn’t “did you check every container perfectly,” it’s about your relationship with Christ and whether you’re actually responding to the grace He gives you. So yeah, someone can genuinely love Christ, follow Him, and be saved without having everything figured out perfectly. God isn’t sitting there looking for technicalities to keep people out.
But that doesn’t make the differences pointless either. Truth still matters. If Jesus actually established a Church with authority, sacraments, and structure, then getting closer to that matters, not because it’s some club, but because it’s what He gave us for our good. I have poured myself into scripture (with proper exegesis), the early Chutch and early Church fathers… I have never been more certain about my faith despite the many and horrific flaws of men within Christ’s Church.
Please realize, this isn’t about thinking Catholics are “better.” I’ve got a best friend who grew up United Methodist and now goes to a non-denominational church after everything that happened with the Methodist Church. He’s a better man than I am by a mile. If you asked me, I’d say he probably gets into heaven before I do, but that’s not my call, that’s God’s.
But no, the debates aren’t pointless. Clearly only one faith at most can be right, or at least most right… The debates matter because truth matters, but at the same time, none of us are saved because we “won an argument” or landed in the right label. I’m not trying to “dunk” on any of you. Just hope to help reveal what was revealed to me. We’re saved by Christ, and God judges the heart, not just what container you check.
Catholics believe salvation isn’t “did you check every container perfectly,” it’s about your relationship with Christ and whether you’re actually responding to the grace He gives you. So yeah, someone can genuinely love Christ, follow Him, and be saved without having everything figured out perfectly. God isn’t sitting there looking for technicalities to keep people out.
But that doesn’t make the differences pointless either. Truth still matters. If Jesus actually established a Church with authority, sacraments, and structure, then getting closer to that matters, not because it’s some club, but because it’s what He gave us for our good. I have poured myself into scripture (with proper exegesis), the early Chutch and early Church fathers… I have never been more certain about my faith despite the many and horrific flaws of men within Christ’s Church.
Please realize, this isn’t about thinking Catholics are “better.” I’ve got a best friend who grew up United Methodist and now goes to a non-denominational church after everything that happened with the Methodist Church. He’s a better man than I am by a mile. If you asked me, I’d say he probably gets into heaven before I do, but that’s not my call, that’s God’s.
But no, the debates aren’t pointless. Clearly only one faith at most can be right, or at least most right… The debates matter because truth matters, but at the same time, none of us are saved because we “won an argument” or landed in the right label. I’m not trying to “dunk” on any of you. Just hope to help reveal what was revealed to me. We’re saved by Christ, and God judges the heart, not just what container you check.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:59 pm to crotiger0307
No one truly in the faith believes the pope is divine/god
Posted on 4/18/26 at 10:15 pm to crotiger0307
The Catholic Church teaches he is the vicar of Christ. He is absolutely no deity. I don’t understand where this keeps coming up from with the Pope.
You don’t agree with the Church then. You need reanalyze the Church’s position on this matter, please. As a fellow Catholic, we must love each other as brothers so I have to tell you that you cannot be in communion with the Church if you don’t truly believe what the Church teaches. To quote from The Roman Catechism:
“He [the Pope] sits in that chair of Peter in which beyond every shadow of doubt the Prince of the Apostles sat to the end of his days, and hence it is that in him the Church recognizes the highest degree of dignity, and a universality of jurisdiction derived, not from the decrees of men or Councils, but from God Himself”.
I mean, I won’t disagree that I think the Church does need to be tougher on a lot of things. Obviously, the Church is not 100% against war as long as it is just. Listen, you can disagree on issues with him on these issues, there were some theological things he put out I disagree with, but fundamentally, he is not just some “political hack” as you put it.
quote:
Jesus was pretty clear in stating that Peter was the rock upon whom the Church was founded, not “the first rock of many more to come”.
You don’t agree with the Church then. You need reanalyze the Church’s position on this matter, please. As a fellow Catholic, we must love each other as brothers so I have to tell you that you cannot be in communion with the Church if you don’t truly believe what the Church teaches. To quote from The Roman Catechism:
“He [the Pope] sits in that chair of Peter in which beyond every shadow of doubt the Prince of the Apostles sat to the end of his days, and hence it is that in him the Church recognizes the highest degree of dignity, and a universality of jurisdiction derived, not from the decrees of men or Councils, but from God Himself”.
quote:
Statements like “God doesn’t bless those who raise the sword”… (see David, Constantine, etc.) show him to be nothing but a political hack who contributes to the pussification of not only the Catholic Church (alignment with the Democrat liberal ideology) but the entirety of western civilization.
I mean, I won’t disagree that I think the Church does need to be tougher on a lot of things. Obviously, the Church is not 100% against war as long as it is just. Listen, you can disagree on issues with him on these issues, there were some theological things he put out I disagree with, but fundamentally, he is not just some “political hack” as you put it.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 10:25 pm to crotiger0307
quote:
Statements like “God doesn’t bless those who raise the sword”… (see David, Constantine, etc.) show him to be nothing but a political hack who contributes to the pussification of not only the Catholic Church (alignment with the Democrat liberal ideology) but the entirety of western civilization.
Divinity is bestowed upon no man, be weary of any “Catholic” who makes an argument otherwise.
This is incredible perspective and, as a non-Catholic, I'm glad to read it.
I've nothing against Catholics, mind you. I just never have been one and probably never will be. Just a non-denominational Christian.
But I've definitely been surprised by some of the "woke" that has come out of recent Popes, after so many years of my life thinking so highly of Catholic leadership. It's just been bizarre to witness. Your perspective gives me some added depth to my own.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 10:48 pm to TigerAxeOK
quote:
But I've definitely been surprised by some of the "woke" that has come out of recent Popes, after so many years of my life thinking so highly of Catholic leadership. It's just been bizarre to witness. Your perspective gives me some added depth to my own.
Not to say certain things that the Pope says I don't disagree with, we literally have numerous
circumstances of folks (St Paul, st Catherine of Sienna for example) telling Pope's at the time to Man up, they are are acting stupid, etc
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 4/18/26 at 11:29 pm to crotiger0307
You’re not a very good or devout Catholic then, and you’re not in good standing with the Church.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 11:49 pm to Bsltee
Nope. Church founded by Christ, not Peter. And who is to say that Jesus was referring to Peter when he used rock
Jesus is the Rock my foundation is based on, not a man called Peter
Jesus is the Rock my foundation is based on, not a man called Peter
Posted on 4/18/26 at 11:57 pm to crotiger0307
I appreciate your position, but it does go against the RCC's teaching about the Pope.
It really fascinates me how Catholics speak of unity over and against Protestants when there is so much disunity of belief and practice from lay Catholic to lay Catholic.
It really fascinates me how Catholics speak of unity over and against Protestants when there is so much disunity of belief and practice from lay Catholic to lay Catholic.
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