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re: As a Catholic, I view the pope the same as I do the English monarch
Posted on 4/18/26 at 4:36 pm to Canon951
Posted on 4/18/26 at 4:36 pm to Canon951
quote:
Now you explain it.
Inflallibility only deals with the the topics of faith and morals. And in those situations you outlined (ex cathedra).
Also can come ecumenical councils, but nobody really agrees with having those anymore. Could probably straighten some more stuff out
0
Posted on 4/18/26 at 5:03 pm to LSUbest
quote:
Is there another church that claims to be the one true way to Christ that has done this?
Why does the claim matter? Isn't it just about the abuse/covering up?
Other churches, institutions/organizations did handle allegations of child abuse the same way. Boys Scouts of America is one that's actually been looked into, with its file of "Ineligible Volunteers".
The Catholic Church is an easy (and frankly, appropriate) lightening rod for heat today over this type of evil/corruption - because of its size and "standing" but it wasn't the only organization that handled sexual abuse involving minors by keeping it in-house, hiding evidence, moving or firing perpetrators and calling it good.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 5:09 pm to crotiger0307
lol. If Trump would say “I’m an now dictator” yall would say “president was a dumb idea anyway. We need someone to be able to make a decision and it just happens.”
Posted on 4/18/26 at 5:11 pm to crotiger0307
quote:
be weary
No, be wary…
Posted on 4/18/26 at 6:23 pm to Sp0728
Maybe I missed it, but did I bring up Trump? Or is your case of TDS so severe that you must mention his name to scratch that mentally retarded itch that you feel?
Posted on 4/18/26 at 7:22 pm to crotiger0307
quote:
the vicar of Christ makes statements that are directly antithetical to the written text of the Bible?
When did that happen?
Posted on 4/18/26 at 7:30 pm to crotiger0307
In the Jewish faith God Himself was referred to as The Rock. Peter was just a pebble.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 7:37 pm to Bsltee
quote:
In the Jewish faith God Himself was referred to as The Rock. Peter was just a pebble.
So you are saying you disagree with Jesus. lol
Posted on 4/18/26 at 7:50 pm to Bsltee
Peter’s name: Petros – masculine, meaning “stone” or “rock.”
“Rock” on which the church will be built: Petra – feminine, meaning “bedrock” or “large rock/rock formation.”
Two different words used. Peter's confession of faith in Christ is the foundation and the gates of hell won't prevail against it. Why? Because faith in Christ and believing he is the son of God that has come into the world to die for us is what saves. When someone believes this they cross over from death to life and are saved for eternity.
“Rock” on which the church will be built: Petra – feminine, meaning “bedrock” or “large rock/rock formation.”
Two different words used. Peter's confession of faith in Christ is the foundation and the gates of hell won't prevail against it. Why? Because faith in Christ and believing he is the son of God that has come into the world to die for us is what saves. When someone believes this they cross over from death to life and are saved for eternity.
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 4/18/26 at 7:52 pm to crotiger0307
as the head of a regional church?
Posted on 4/18/26 at 7:58 pm to Canon951
Jesus wasn’t speaking Greek, He was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic it’s the same word, Kepha, both times. So it’s basically: “You are Rock, and on this Rock I’ll build my Church.” No distinction there.
The Petros vs Petra thing only shows up because Greek needs a masculine form for a name. It’s a grammar issue, not a different meaning… and even in Greek, that difference gets overplayed. Those words can be used interchangeably in that time period.
Also, if Jesus only meant Peter’s confession, the sentence gets weird: “You are Rock, but I’m building on something else.” That’s not how it reads. Then right after, Jesus gives Peter alone the keys and authority. If it was just about a general belief, why single him out like that? Every other time God changed someone’s name in the Bible it was a monumental thing.
The Petros vs Petra thing only shows up because Greek needs a masculine form for a name. It’s a grammar issue, not a different meaning… and even in Greek, that difference gets overplayed. Those words can be used interchangeably in that time period.
Also, if Jesus only meant Peter’s confession, the sentence gets weird: “You are Rock, but I’m building on something else.” That’s not how it reads. Then right after, Jesus gives Peter alone the keys and authority. If it was just about a general belief, why single him out like that? Every other time God changed someone’s name in the Bible it was a monumental thing.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 8:04 pm to METAL
Peter's statement accompanied by belief is what saves and the gates of hell will not prevail against a born again believer. He is sealed until the day of redemption, crossed over from death to life, and will never ever perish.
Perhaps it's more nuanced. Perhaps it's the statement of faith combined with Peter as the head of the apostles carrying that message would be the foundation of the church. I'm open to a clearer understanding, but the church being built upon Peter the man makes no sense when compared with the rest of scripture. All throughout Jesus is referred to as the rock, foundation, cornerstone etc.
Perhaps it's more nuanced. Perhaps it's the statement of faith combined with Peter as the head of the apostles carrying that message would be the foundation of the church. I'm open to a clearer understanding, but the church being built upon Peter the man makes no sense when compared with the rest of scripture. All throughout Jesus is referred to as the rock, foundation, cornerstone etc.
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 4/18/26 at 8:11 pm to Canon951
You’re mixing a few different passages together and reading them into Matthew 16… Yes, faith in Christ saves, but in Matthew 16 Jesus isn’t talking about an individual believer being “sealed” or personal salvation. He’s talking about building His Church. Those are two different topics.
“The gates of hell won’t prevail” isn’t about one person never falling away, it’s about the Church as a whole not being overcome. Gates are defensive, not offensive. The idea is death won’t defeat what Christ is building… and if this was just about a general “born again believer,” then why does Jesus single out Peter by name, change his name, and give him the keys right after?
You’re also pulling in “sealed until redemption” from elsewhere, but that’s not what this passage is about. You can’t just import verses from different contexts and say they all mean the same thing. So yeah… faith saves. But Matthew 16 isn’t describing that. It’s describing Christ establishing something visible, with structure and authority (Ecclesia / Qahal), and Peter is right at the center of it.
“The gates of hell won’t prevail” isn’t about one person never falling away, it’s about the Church as a whole not being overcome. Gates are defensive, not offensive. The idea is death won’t defeat what Christ is building… and if this was just about a general “born again believer,” then why does Jesus single out Peter by name, change his name, and give him the keys right after?
You’re also pulling in “sealed until redemption” from elsewhere, but that’s not what this passage is about. You can’t just import verses from different contexts and say they all mean the same thing. So yeah… faith saves. But Matthew 16 isn’t describing that. It’s describing Christ establishing something visible, with structure and authority (Ecclesia / Qahal), and Peter is right at the center of it.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 8:14 pm to METAL
quote:
He’s talking about building His Church.
You do realize that the church is not a building or an organization right?
The statement of faith is what saves and what builds and adds to the number of the church which is the body of believers. The church is not some organized religion or denomination.
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 8:26 pm
Posted on 4/18/26 at 8:46 pm to Canon951
How much time have you actually spent looking into the original text and the verbiage that was used? I already referenced it. Why don’t you go ahead and look those words up.
But you are correct on one thing. The church is not a denomination. It is pre-denomination.
But you are correct on one thing. The church is not a denomination. It is pre-denomination.
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 8:47 pm
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:14 pm to Missouri Waltz
Statements and action I should say*
Besides the example in the OP, the blessing of same sex couples is a pretty big one...
Allocating a place for prayer to a false idol (Mohammed) within the walls of Vatican City is another.
Besides the example in the OP, the blessing of same sex couples is a pretty big one...
Allocating a place for prayer to a false idol (Mohammed) within the walls of Vatican City is another.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:17 pm to METAL
quote:
Jesus wasn’t speaking Greek, He was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic it’s the same word, Kepha, both times. So it’s basically: “You are Rock, and on this Rock I’ll build my Church.” No distinction there.
The Petros vs Petra thing only shows up because Greek needs a masculine form for a name. It’s a grammar issue, not a different meaning… and even in Greek, that difference gets overplayed. Those words can be used interchangeably in that time period.
Also, if Jesus only meant Peter’s confession, the sentence gets weird: “You are Rock, but I’m building on something else.” That’s not how it reads. Then right after, Jesus gives Peter alone the keys and authority. If it was just about a general belief, why single him out like that? Every other time God changed someone’s name in the Bible it was a monumental thing.
Perfectly explained brother.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:22 pm to METAL
quote:
Jesus wasn’t speaking Greek, He was speaking Aramaic.
Are you arguing that the underlying, supposed Aramaic is authoritative over and above the Greek text? That’s certainly a strategory.
Posted on 4/18/26 at 9:33 pm to the808bass
No, not at all brother. I’m not making the point that “Aramaic overrules Greek.” The point is understanding what Jesus meant, and the Greek is translating something He originally said. Even in the Greek, the connection is still there. “Petros” and “Petra” share the same root, and the only reason they differ is because Greek forces a masculine form for Peter’s name. It’s not two separate ideas, it’s just grammar.
You can see that Christ through Matthew intends them to be linked, because the sentence structure ties them together directly: “You are X, and on this X I will…” It’s clearly pointing back to Peter. Not to mention, the context right after matters. Jesus gives Peter the keys and authority. That only strengthens the idea that He is in fact talking about Peter himself, not switching subjects mid-sentence to something abstract.
So no… this isn’t about appealing to some hidden Aramaic to override the text. It’s just reading the Greek the way it was actually written, in context, instead of claiming something else that it clearly wasn’t intending.
You can see that Christ through Matthew intends them to be linked, because the sentence structure ties them together directly: “You are X, and on this X I will…” It’s clearly pointing back to Peter. Not to mention, the context right after matters. Jesus gives Peter the keys and authority. That only strengthens the idea that He is in fact talking about Peter himself, not switching subjects mid-sentence to something abstract.
So no… this isn’t about appealing to some hidden Aramaic to override the text. It’s just reading the Greek the way it was actually written, in context, instead of claiming something else that it clearly wasn’t intending.
This post was edited on 4/18/26 at 9:34 pm
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