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Message
re: Another Point of View on Abortion
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:31 am to Bard
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:31 am to Bard
quote:
If the stance is "bodily autonomy" then you have to take the baby's body into account
A fetus doesn't have bodily autonomy. It literally depends on the nutrition it receives from the pregnant woman carrying it.
If you can find a way biologically to give a fetus bodily autonomy, where it doesn't require a gestation period or a host (again, the pregnant woman), then have at it.
3
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:34 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
This desire to either suggest that you are only against abortion due to religious beliefs or that you can't be against abortion without them is wrong headed.
I don't think that's what he was saying. "Anything goes" means you might agree with religious people on issues, or you may not. The point is if you take God out of the picture the guiderails are gone. Doesn't mean you can't stay in the middle of the road, it just means you can also veer off.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:35 am to TygerTyger
Non-sensical — when life starts doesn’t matter BUT no one has a right to use your body against your will.
If the fetus is a human being, then the mother has no right to “use” the body of the fetus against its will, which the govt should protect since the fetus cannot.
Determining when the fetus is a human being IS important then.
If the fetus is a human being, then the mother has no right to “use” the body of the fetus against its will, which the govt should protect since the fetus cannot.
Determining when the fetus is a human being IS important then.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:35 am to CrimeStoppers
quote:
A fetus doesn't have bodily autonomy. It literally depends on the nutrition it receives from the pregnant woman carrying it.
Their are 30 year olds that depend just as much on their mother for nutrition.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:37 am to subotic
quote:Why?
any point of view that relates abortion to blood and organ donation is lacking discernment at the most basic level.
The only real response to the analysis is the argument that you PUT the fetus there and have therefore assumed the legal or moral burden of preserving it. While there are also gaping holes in that response, it would clearly not apply to rape pregnancies, and anti-abortion absolutists cannot have that.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:37 am to David_DJS
shite, there are plenty of adults still stuck in the government womb. Can't feed or house themselves without it...
Can we abort them? They have no autonomy.
Can we abort them? They have no autonomy.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:39 am to CrimeStoppers
quote:
A fetus doesn't have bodily autonomy.
Neither does a 6 month old. But it's illegal to neglect one and just let it die because you don't like it depending on you.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:39 am to Texas Ram
quote:
Your friend did not post that.
Yes, they did.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:39 am to Flats
quote:
The point is if you take God out of the picture the guiderails are gone. Doesn't mean you can't stay in the middle of the road, it just means you can also veer off.
Spot on - thank you for the clarification.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:39 am to Flats
quote:
The point is if you take God out of the picture the guiderails are gone.
Respectfully, I obviously disagree here but I don't want to derail the thread going down this road.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:42 am to FooManChoo
This is the best counter argument I’ve yet seen.
And I agree.
Guys, I’m no secret liberal trying to sneak one over in y’all.
A cursory glance at my post history can confirm that I’m pretty damned conservative.
But I do think that it is smart to consider all viewpoints in these things in order to make sure I’m not missing something.
Leftists tend not to do that.
Don’t be like leftists.
And I agree.
Guys, I’m no secret liberal trying to sneak one over in y’all.
A cursory glance at my post history can confirm that I’m pretty damned conservative.
But I do think that it is smart to consider all viewpoints in these things in order to make sure I’m not missing something.
Leftists tend not to do that.
Don’t be like leftists.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:43 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:The issue does come down to "religion" if you want to remain consistent.
And yet, I'm atheist and am strongly against abortion. This desire to either suggest that you are only against abortion due to religious beliefs or that you can't be against abortion without them is wrong headed.
I'm against abortions because I believe there is only one shot at life. Taking it away for what amounts to, in nearly all cases, being conceived at an inconvenient time for your mother is not a good enough reason to deny that person's one shot at life. I also recognize that life begins at conception, when sperm meets egg in this case and cells begin to divide and new DNA emerges. And since it can only be human, it's human life.
This is only a religious issue if you make it one.
An Atheist can be against abortion, but has no ability to say that the act is objectively immoral.
An Atheist can say that an unborn child has value, but he cannot provide an objective basis for that value.
An Atheist can desire to be alive, but has no objective basis for requiring others to remain alive.
In the final analysis, Atheism rests on moral relativism, and has no objective basis for demanding anything.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:43 am to CrimeStoppers
quote:
A fetus doesn't have bodily autonomy. It literally depends on the nutrition it receives from the pregnant woman carrying it.
By that logic, anyone who can't feed themselves has no bodily autonomy. Infants, the elderly, people in comas, etc. are all dependent on some other person to get the nutrition they need.
Try again.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:45 am to Texas Ram
quote:
Your friend did not post that.
I dont think he meant his friend wrote that original post, but his friend shared the screenshot. I’ve seen the same screenshot posted by libs I know
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:45 am to TygerTyger
quote:
But I do think that it is smart to consider all viewpoints in these things in order to make sure I’m not missing something.
It absolutely is. I just think that most people over 30 (and a lot under 30) have considered all the angles on this issue and landed where they are. The "it's my body" angle isn't exactly a fresh take.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:46 am to the_truman_shitshow
quote:As I have said many times, we may be discussing the same general TOPIC, but we seldom address the same ISSUES. Sometimes we do not even speak the same LANGUAGE.
This is the problem with this abortion discourse - religious folk argue from a completely different framework perspective and secularists argue from one that is diametrically opposed in worldview and framework.
The only way the issue can be resolved is for each side to accept that the other holds its views in good faith, that the absolutists on neither side will never get all that they want, and that we just need to negotiate a resolution that minimizes overall societal angst.
The hyperbole from both sides (nonsense about “subjugation of wonen” or “sacrifices to molloch”) are utterly unproductive.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:46 am to TygerTyger
This is so dumb.
Infants need adults to survive. They are “using” the adults’ bodies.
That doesn’t mean parents get to take them out back and kill them to be free of them.
Infants need adults to survive. They are “using” the adults’ bodies.
That doesn’t mean parents get to take them out back and kill them to be free of them.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:48 am to Flats
quote:
A fetus doesn't have bodily autonomy.
quote:
Neither does a 6 month old.
Correct...I thought we blew that out of the water yesterday?
"Bodily autonomy" by definition, excludes quite a few of our most defenseless groups. This is a case of
Posted on 5/5/22 at 9:48 am to Diamondawg
quote:that may answer the question of “Is there a Constitutional right,” but it does nothing to address the policy questions regarding abortion.
I can boil it down even easier so even a TigerDroppings reader can understand. Is it in the constitution - Yes/No?
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