re: Not happy with this Walther...

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BFIV

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The majority of the shooters on this board that are "arguing" with you are simply trying to at least show you logically that your fears are unfounded.

If you haven't done a lot of handgun shooting, there are lots of myths that have spread like wildfire, either from Hollywood or from the good ole days. So we are simply talking you through the process logically as to show you that clearly. Arguing and disagreeing with someone is one of the best ways to force you to think for yourself. That's all.

I, along with others, think you should pursue some training, and not just because you prefer a safety. Those who are less familiar with handguns can greatly benefit from a firearms training class. You learn how to handle yourself through higher levels of stress and how to shoot from many unconventional positions. It is true defensive handgun training that I think anyone can benefit from.

Good luck in your searches.

I've always been an advocate for training, but if he's uncomfortable with it, he's never gonna use it. I mean, would you CC a desert eagle?

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Dawg- I just watched Hickok45's video, and it is neither DAO, nor striker fired. It's a SA hammer-fired gun. He points this out- you don't get a second strike on a dud, you can see the hammer cock when you rack the slide.

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Thank you. It's amazing how many of the gun folks here do not understand the difference. I would think dawg would get it. It's truly disappointing.

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In order as you listed, my preferences are:
1. glove box and CC, external safety
2. right handed
3. DA/SA is preferred
4. Metal or polymer frame is fine
5. I have big hands. I want one that fits big hands. I don't want anything with a grip that does not accomodate all four fingers.
6. Does not have to be 16 rounds. After 50 years, anything over 6 rounds is a plus.

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P30?

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Thank you. It's amazing how many of the gun folks here do not understand the difference. I would think dawg would get it. It's truly disappointing.

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I recall your posting this here a year or three ago. I'm sure you an Scoob are sincere in wanting to understand the differences between the traditional Single Action (SA) pistol, the traditional double action (DA) pistol, the hammer-fired Double Action Only (DAO) pistols and the striker-fired DAO pistols.(None of which is defined by a "second strike capability.")

Here's a link to a site that will explain the differences between SA, traditional DA, and DAO pistols. Beginners Guide

I understand it completely. Thanks.

Nothing to disabuse -- we're on the same page.

I'm just saying that while traditional DA pistols usually (virtually always) have a 2nd strike capability, the absence of a second strike capability doesn't "automatically" (no pun intended) mean the pistol is classified as SA. (Which is what I understood Scoob to sorta be saying earlier).

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I always wanted to take one of Jeff Cooper's classes, but California is and was a long way from here.

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Actually Gunsite is in Arizona. But, unfortunately, Col. Cooper passed away a few years ago. The academy is still lthere, and is still a top-tier school.

But you don't need to travel that far. This guy teaches quite a few classes in Virginia each year. He is highly qualified, and is highly respected in the gun training world.
Greg Ellifritz

Greg's "Assumptions & Biases"

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Dawg - you (or Bap) recommend any rifle/carbine classes in CENLA?

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I took Intro, Tac Carbine 1 & 2 at VATA in Slidel and it was awesome. I also took Carbine 1 & 2 at Advantage Group near Hammond. Both were excellent but I'm partial to VATA.

ETA: SORRY - just noticed that your question pertained to rifle/carbine classes. My response (below) pertains to handgun classes. Disregard.



While I don't claim to be an expert on this topic, I have trained with quite a few "top tier" instructors ---- Massad Ayoob, Clint Smith, Tom Givens, Andy Stanford, John Farnam, Jeff Gonzales, James Yeager (before he went off the reservation), and Jerry Miculek to name just a few.

I always recommend Tom Givens (www.rangemaster.com) as a "first" (initial) class. Tom comes to BR about once a year, but you can usually find a class within a few hours driving time (Beaumont, TX, Bastrop, TX & Franklin, TN come to mind as places he teaches at periodically) if you don't want to wait until next year for a BR class.

The reason I think it's important to go to the "right" first class is that in almost any class there will be a few things you should ignore (In some classes there will be a lot of stuff you should ignore). When Gomez was around we often discussed this -- and agreed on this concept.

By "stuff to ignore," I'm referring to things that are at variance with "mainstream doctrine." For example, if 19/20 instructors are recommending "A" as a tactic or technique, and you're in a class where you're being told to never do "A," there's probably something wrong.

Two classes where I don't think you'll ever be taught anything that's stupid, or outside mainstream doctrine, would be Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch & Tom Givens. Gunsite would probably be another, but I haven't trained there, so I don't know this from personal experience.

After you have taken a few classes, you'll have a pretty good feel for "mainstream doctrine" -- but in your first class, you may not.

I don't usually recommend Thunder Ranch as a first class, only because few people want to travel to Oregon, toting 1500 rounds of lead-free ammo, and pay the "high" tuition that Clint charges. Don't get me wrong -- he's worth every cent he charges. But he charges more than most other instructors because he can fill classes months (sometimes a year) in advance even at pretty high rates. The man is that good. (Clint is teaching a defensive handgun class next February in Texas, but that class is already full).

Tom Givens is equally good. And his fees are more in line with what others charge for a class (usually ~ $425-450 for a two day class). LINK

PLUS -- If you ever have to defend yourself in court, pointing to Tom as "the guy who taught me that I should do what I did in that situation" means you'll be pointing to one of the gurus of the gun training world. (And if you're a former student, he'll show up as an expert witness to assist you and your attorney with your legal defense). I don't know of any local instructors who have that standing/reputation in the training world.